Ohio CCW Tied Up In The Courts - Bad News

[Ninj500]

* OFCC NEEDS YOUR IMMEDIATE HELP! *

Ohioans for Concealed Carry has learned that Toby Hoover and her
anti-gun group the Ohio Coalition "Against Gun Violence" has filed a
Writ of Mandamus to bar Franklin County Sheriff Jim Karnes from issuing
any concealed handgun license. If successful, Toby’s lawsuit could have
standing in all counties across the state.

In typical fashion, rabid anti-gunners are trying to win in the courts
what they lost in the legislature. Much like the failed attempts to
bankrupt gun manufactures through frivolous lawsuits this is another
action to subvert legislative authority and deny Ohioans the right to
self-defense.

Unlike the lawsuit filed by Jim Irvine in Cuyahoga County, which is
designed to force the Cuyahoga Sheriff’s office to OBEY the law, Toby is
attempting to block the implementation of a constitutional law passed in
the legislature and signed by Governor Bob Taft.

Ohioans for Concealed Carry sees this unfounded legal action as the last
desperate attempt of an organization that cannot accept they lost in the
legislature and that the majority of Ohioans do not support their beliefs.

We are working with several powerful Second Amendment organizations to
arrange financial and legal resources - but it will not be enough.

Only a large grassroots movement can save our concealed carry rights.

If you are not a member of Ohioans for Concealed Carry, now is the time
to join – if you are a member we need your financial support to fight
this dangerous lawsuit. Missouri’s law has stagnated in the courts
indefinitely and only through a decisive win can we avoid a similar fate.

Ohioans for Concealed Carry plans to defend vigorously your right to
self defense and legal carry concealed carry rights and needs your
support to do so.

Please forward this alert by any means to fellow concealed carry
advocates across the state.

Credit Card or PayPal donations can be accepted through our Secure Web
Store immediately, which can be found at https://www.OhioCCW.org/catalog

Just look for the donation link and enter the contribution value of your
choice. We ask you to dig deep and consider a significant donation to
help offset the costs of legal representation.

You don't depend on others to defend your life, don't depend on others
to defend your rights. Donate today.

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[Gray Peterson]

Uh.....

What exactly is the legal argument being made?

 

[Ninj500]

We won't have a full accounting until sometime Monday. The suit was filed late on Friday for some odd reason and there wasn't time to get a full read of the document.

Problem is the Ohio Supreme Court proved they weren't interested in upholding the constitution with their Klen vs. Leis ruling.

 

[standingbear]

leave it to the antis to throw something in the works at the last possable minute...seems to be their tactics.throw it in late let it set and maybe itll stagnant.yall want this ..IM for sending something.

 

[mrtgbnkr]

My (very limited legal) understanding is that a Writ of Mandamus is filed to force a public official to enforce the law by performing their duties. How can Toby et al use this as a method of PREVENTING the sherrif from performing his legal duties?

Definition from http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/m079.htm

MANDAMUS - The name of a writ, the principal word of which when the proceedings were in Latin, was mandamus, we command.

It is a command issuing in the name of the sovereign authority from a superior court having jurisdiction, and is directed to some person, corporation, or, inferior court, within the jurisdiction of such superior court, requiring them to do some particular thing therein specified, which appertains to their office and duty, and which the superior court has previously determined, or at least supposes to be consonant to right and justice.

Mandamus is not a writ of right, it is not consequently granted of course, but only at the discretion of the court to whom the application for it is made; and this discretion is not exercised in favor of the applicant, unless some just and useful purpose may be answered by the writ.

This writ was introduced io prevent disorders from a failure of justice; therefore it ought to be used upon all occasions where the law has established no specific remedy, and where in justice and good government there ought to be one. Mandamus will not lie where the law has given another specific remedy.

The 13th section of the act of congress of Sept. 24, 1789, gives the Supreme Court power to issue writs of mandamus in cases warranted by the principles and usages of law, to any courts appointed or persons holding office, under the authority of the United States. The issuing of a mandamus to courts, is the exercise of an appellate jurisdiction, and, therefore constitutionally vested in the supreme court; but a mandamus directed to a public officer, belongs to original jurisdiction, and by the constitution, the exercise of original jurisdiction by the supreme court is restricted to certain specified cases, which do not comprehend a mandamus. The latter clause of the above section, authorizing this writ to be issued by the supreme court to persons holding office under the authority of the United States, is, therefore, not warranted by the constitution and void.

The circuit courts of the United States may also issue writs of mandamus, but their power in this particular is confined exclusively to those cases in which it may be necessary to the exercise of their jurisdiction.

 

[Zan]

I don't see it holding up anything.. I'm not worried.

 

[Ninj500]

Remember lawsuits tied up MO from October until Feb and they are still working out the issues.

If the Franklin County Sheriff doesn't fight Toby's suit she wins. We know the Sherrif himself does not want to be bothered with issueing permits so he can simply agree and stop.

Although that isn't likely it could happen. Anytime the courts and lawyers are invovled the potential for long delays become a reality.

This is a serious threat to our CCW rights. Whether everyone believes it or not. It can, of course, become a non-issue and simply go away. That's what we hope but it can also derail everything.

 

[flatrock]

I joined the OFCC a little while ago, and snet them an additional donation to help fight this. It's unfortunate that we have to fight for our constitutional rights, rather than have our elected officials do so as they are supposed to do.

 

[Ninj500]

Thank you for your support. I don't normally post OFCC issues to the board but this was important enough to do so.

 

[telewinz]

WRIT OF MANDAMUS SOUGHT AGAINST FRANKLIN COUNTY SHERIFF KARNES

On Friday April 9, 2004, Franklin County resident Josephine Lee filed a lawsuit in the Supreme Court of Ohio against Franklin County Sheriff Jim Karnes. The lawsuit centers around Josephine's application with Sheriff Karnes for a Temporary Emergency License to carry a concealed handgun, as well as her standard application for a concealed handgun license.

The suit alleges Sheriff Karnes is illegally requiring information beyond that required by law for a Temporary Emergency License, and seeks an Order for Sheriff Karnes to process the application without the additional materials demanded by his office.

"Josephine's application complied with the law in all respects," said attorney Ken Hanson of Firestone and Brehm, Ltd., the lawfirm representing Josephine. "It appears that the Sheriff's confusion centers around whether he must accept an affidavit at face value, or whether he has discretion to inquire beyond the affidavit and require supporting materials not provided for in the statute. The plain language of the statute, and the legislative history, will show that Josephine submitted all that is required under the law. The intent of the General Assembly was that victims in Ohio do not have to divulge specific, embarrassing details of their victimization, and do not have to submit to the intimidation of a discretionary process to exercise self defense."

The suit also alleges that Sheriff Karnes failed to accept and process a properly executed standard concealed handgun license application from Ms. Lee, and seeks an Order for Sheriff Karnes to accept and process her standard concealed handgun license application.

On a positive note, Hanson added, "Very productive conversations were held throughout the day on Friday with officials from Franklin County, and it is my sincere hope that this momentum is maintained in the coming days. This matter may ultimately be reduced to a simple misunderstanding, and resolved amicably for both Ms. Lee and Sheriff Karnes."

 

[Ninj500]

There were two suits filed Friday afternoon, the first by Joey to force Franklin County to give her an emergency permit. The second was filed by Toby Hoover.

This threat is real and can seriously damage our CCW chances. We may get lucky and have it go away but as we all know, once something is caught up in the courts it takes forever to resolve.

Most that will get a CCW permit did little to nothing to help the legislative fight to get a law passed. If even half the people that will get a license donated to OFCC the Second Ammendment Foundation or the NRA - or gave to a Pro-CCW candidate for office we would have one of the best CCW laws in the state instead of the worst.

Groups that fight for CCW rights in Ohio need support to make sure this lawsuit doesn't set us back months or years.

If you don't want to join OFCC, send a donation to the Second Ammendment Foundation who will hopefully help us in this fight or send it to the NRA instead.

 

[Ninj500]

Here is a link to a story about the lawsuit. OFCC will have a copy of the lawsuit posted to the site sometime soon (OhioCCW.org).

http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/news/updates/5591.html

 

[Henry Bowman]

Here is a link to a copy of the Complaint .

Frankly, it should/will not fly. But, many of the cracks in the law that Ms Hoover is trying to pry open were put in the law as a result of spineless compromise in the Ohio Senate. Nice of her to bring them out now and get these issues settled.

BTW: Ulmer & Berne of Cleveland is representing the facists. (Not my firm!)