Optimal Self Defense Tri-Fecta

[MashieNiblick]

Mods:
- I am not certain whether this thread belongs in the Non Fire Weapons Forum, but two of the three implimentations below do. If there is a better place for it please move it to the more applicable Forum as such.


Just in case any of you's out there ever find yourself in a position of receiving constant or near constant harrassment whilst in public, may i recommend to "The High Road" the following Optimal Self Defense Tri-Fecta:

For Potential Close Ups:
Cane:
- With nice tip such as the following, perhaps:
-- http://www.treelineusa.com/walking-sticks-and-canes/stick-tips/brass-climbing-tip.html


For Mid Range as well as Potential Close Ups:
Service Animal:
Legal Inquiries:
- Inquiries cannot be made about the nature or extent of a person's disability, but up to two inquiries may be made to determine whether an animal qualifies as a service animal.
- A public entity may ask if the animal is required because of a disability and what work or task the animal has been trained to perform.
- A public entity shall not require documentation

One Legal Service Animal Task:
- Providing non-violent protection or rescue work

Penalties:
- $55,000 liability if business owner denies or refuses access for service animal


For Long Range, Mid Range, as well as Potential Close Ups:
Lawful Carry of Concealed Handgun:



When confronted, and to alleviate potential situations, all one has to do in such cases is let out the leash of Service Animal, and hand on CW. If properly trained- they will do/take care of the rest.

Works very well for sure with/for my Shepherd/ Rottweiller/ Akita bitch.



Cheers!
- MN

 

[glistam]

Uh, no, "self-defense" is not a recognized task training for a service dog. What you would have there, in the eyes of any LEO or Federal judge, is an attack dog on a leash. Not to mention training a dog for this kind of work is NOT easy, be it a police dog or a helper dog. Both require years of professional training.

You got some parts of the ADA right, but I think you should keep reading up on it.

 

[JShirley]

It's part of my potential use-of-force continuum, at my job. But a "working dog" on a military post is a lot different than what you're talking about. A medium-sized, alert and intelligent dog will hopefully keep you from having to draw your weapon, if you're out. In your dwelling, they can alert and deter.


Let me run over my (job) force continuum:

Presence
Verbal command
Unarmed techniques
OC
Baton
Working dog
Lethal force

Now, in most cases, a good dog will perform the "presence" role, and combined with situational awareness, that should usually be enough. Really good dog training of the kind you describe- especially Schutzund- won't be cheap. Also, I'd be damn careful with that "hand on ccw" crap. Draw or don't- and you should draw as part of a 'shooting solution"- but don't play with it. That's for law enforcement. An agressor should know you have a sidearm just before you squeeze the trigger, and not before.

 

[TimboKhan]

I have no problems, ethical or otherwise, with using a dog for self defense, though I guess I always thought of a dog as being more of a protector. One of the few times a random stranger has ever saw fit to hassle me was stopped very early on in the process when my beloved, but now deceased, Australian Cattle Dog/Rottweiler mix Jake bit the guy square on the butt.

There are some issues here though. First, I never reported the incident for two reasons. One, I figured if some idiot wants to hassle me when I have a hundred pound dog on a leash, he probably deserved what he got. Second, had I reported it, Jake would have, by Denver municipal law, been taken from me and kept in a shelter for a period of no less than 7 days in order to determine if he had rabies, if he was vicious, etc. I don't know if that law has since changed, but when this happened I lived in Denver and worked at an animal shelter and was very well versed on the dog laws. Keep in mind, if your dog freaks out at the shelter (as many often do), and nips at a worker, he is likely to be put down, and you are likely to pay a pretty good fine, and you also open yourself up to a civil lawsuit, which you will almost assuredly lose if your dog is deemed vicious.

In the end, I think a dog is a great thing to have, and I certainly feel like they can keep you out of trouble. The expense and intensity of the training to have a truly trained guard dog is likely more than most people can or will want to do. In fact, after Jake went on to the big couch in the sky, I sort of pledged never to have a big dog again, and my little 13 pound terrier is quite enough for me.

 

[hso]

It may seem odd, but under the ADA's definition of "service animal" you'll find

Service animal means any guide dog, signal dog, or other animal individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability, including, but not limited to, guiding individuals with impaired vision, alerting individuals with impaired hearing to intruders or sounds, providing minimal protection or rescue work, pulling awheelchair, or fetching dropped items.

That doesn't mean that the animal is trained to bite, but the reading I've done on this surprising and controversial service animal role shows that they are trained to be on guard, to block anyone approaching in a threatening manner and to bark and growl to warn the individual to break off.

You can't just go out and get a dog for this purpose unless you have a serious need. You have to qualify as having an emotional disability to qualify for a protection service dog. Victims of rape and assault that have not been able to deal with the aftermath of the attack can qualify. PTSD suffers might as well. The dog has to be trained to standards as well to qualify.

While there are penalties for interfering with the access provisions of the ADA of a disabled person there will almost certainly be state and local penalties for anyone claiming their protection dog is a service dog if they and the animal do not qualify.

 

[Rexster]

My dogs are too valuable for me to want to insert them into harm's way. If someone merits biting, the situation probably justifies the presentation of a weapon. My dogs' job is to act as extensions of my situational awareness.

Moreover, the new Texas law on vicious dogs is so draconian, as written, I don't want to ever insert a dog into any situation that is the least bit a gray area. (Any encounter outside the borders of my real estate can all too easily be made into a gray area.) I would MUCH rather state justification for presenting a weapon than have to explain why my dog bit the wayward nephew of some prominent citizen. (It helps that I have been stating such justification for 27+ years, as a peace officer, and have a track record of showing restraint.)

Do not misunderstand; I do value the lives of myself and my family over the lives of the dogs. It is just that the two dogs we have, who would insert themselves into harm's way, would be very difficult to replace. Selecting such an alert dog, with heart, but who is easygoing with kids, is not so easy; for every Rin Tin Tin, there are a hundred Goofies. We are blessed to have a two dogs with heart, and one Goofy.

 

[Owen Sparks]

A little off topic but I went into a craft store to pick up something for my wife the other day and carried my little 13 pound Rat Terrier in under my arm. It was over 100 degrees that day and I did not want to leave the dog in the car. An employee approached me and said "I'm sorry sir but we do not allow pets in here." I jokingly said: Mam, are you familiar with The American's with Disability Act? This is a service animal, a smelling nose dog. (Like a seeing eye dog) I was born without a sense of smell and if there is a fire or a gas leak this little dog will bark and let me know. She said "Oh, I'm sorry, never mind."

What is funny is that she bought it. Some people are so afraid of the ADA that they will not even question anyone who brings it up. That is how I get away with carrying a 3 foot long club, um "walking stick" practically everywhere that doesn’t allow firearms.

 

[JustinJ]

I can't speak of other towns but in Austin i've found there are very few places, outside of those that sell food, which won't allow a dog to be brought in if one asks. Most restaurants with outdoor dining will allow on the patio as well.

 

[MachIVshooter]

My dogs' job is to act as extensions of my situational awareness.

Agreed. Dogs are too easily defeated by adult human beings, even unarmed ones. A couple years back, I had a 115 lb rotty here that belonged to a friend. He moved into a apt., and I was watching her while he tried to find her a new home. Well, she got hold of my cat, so got got hold of her. She turned on me. I knocked that dog in the head with my fist, then got my hand around her throat and pinned her to the ground until she couldn't fight anymore. Needless to say, she changed her mind about biting me and scampered off into the yard. My hand did hurt, and I got a couple scratches from her claws. But regardless, I'd won. If killing her had been my intention, she would have expired in another few seconds. And I'm really not a big guy at 5'10", 178#. Fit, but average size.

A few years before that, similar thing with a large Malamute that went after my Husky. Dogs are really pretty helpless if you get a grip on their throat with decently strong hands.

I have a big GSD, I'm sure he is intimidating to some. But his only duty is letting me know that there's a problem, I'll take it from there. I don't want an aggressive dog. Ever. I've taken a couple out back and plugged them after they snapped, unprovoked. There's no three strikes with me. Not even two if a child is involved.