Outdoor life parts ways with Aram Von Benedikt

[Gun-Reck]

This is also an interesting situation to me.

In my hunting woods, it is accepted that the last shot claims the kill, not the first.

One of the reasons that the 130 gr. .270 Winchester is such a popular chambering and load.

And, with heavier 150 gr. or copper bullets, aiming for either a high double or off-side shoulder.

Sometimes fence-lines are involved as well.

 

[wombat13]

I don’t hunt deer. But IMO if you’re a crappy enough shot that you wound a deer and someone else has to put it out of its misery you should lose your license. I don’t see the problem here. Other than the lady is a crappy shot.

I almost agree with you, except "stuff happens" and everyone makes a mistake eventually. If all it takes is one wounded animal to lose your hunting license, there would be very, very few hunters.

 

[md7]

Watching Spomer’s video, and reading some about this scenario, am I understanding correctly that both shooters made 600 yard plus and 700 yard plus shots on this animal?

Hear me out…. My view on hunting shot distances is very much shaped on my experience. 300 yards is about the longest possible shot opportunity around here due to lay of the land. Perhaps 400 yards up in the Delta region of the state up north.

My personal limit is 300 yards, and that’s what my equipment and skill set will do. Again, impacted by my area, experience, and geography.

I know long range hunting has become a bigger thing, but it seems like 600 and especially 700 yard shots on live game borders on reckless. But admittedly, that’s also not my area of familiarity.

Are 700 yard shots common and acceptable distances for “long range” hunting? At that range, is it possible the flight time to target is enough that the animal could move and cause a miss or a bad hit?

Can a long range hunter educate me on what distances they commonly engage game or deem ethical?

No judgement… I’m just thinking aloud and asking about an area that I don’t know a lot about. But off the cuff, it seems like a bad idea to me.

 

[wombat13]

Just doing a quick calculation, it's going to take a bullet between 0.8 - 1.0 seconds to travel 700 yards. Seems like plenty of time for an animal to take a step. Calculation based on 7mm RM launching a Nosler ABLR at 3,000 fps. Used Hornady's online ballistic calculator to estimate time of flight for each 25 yard interval.

Also, misjudging the wind by 5 mph yields a 12" miss! Misjudge the wind by just 3 mph and you've got an 8" miss.

 

[md7]

Just doing a quick calculation, it's going to take a bullet between 0.8 - 1.0 seconds to travel 700 yards. Seems like plenty of time for an animal to take a step. Calculation based on 7mm RM launching a Nosler ABLR at 3,000 fps. Used Hornady's online ballistic calculator to estimate time of flight for each 25 yard interval.

Also, misjudging the wind by 5 mph yields a 12" miss! Misjudge the wind by just 3 mph and you've got an 8" miss.

Good info.

An animal certainly can move in the time it takes a bullet to travel 700 yards if it’s 1 second from ignition to impact.

600 yards may even be pushing it, just in terms of flight time.

The shot distances regarding the Von Benedikt and other hunter in this situation are as surprising to me as the aftermath of it all.

Again, I say this from my perspective as non long distance hunter. It’s hard to fathom shots that far. On live game I mean.

 

[LoonWulf]

Good info.

An animal certainly can move in the time it takes a bullet to travel 700 yards if it’s 1 second from ignition to impact.

600 yards may even be pushing it, just in terms of flight time.

The shot distances regarding the Von Benedikt and other hunter in this situation are as surprising to me as the aftermath of it all.

Again, I say this from my perspective as non long distance hunter. It’s hard to fathom shots that far. On live game I mean.

Properly done I have no issues with people taking shots to the edge of their comfort zone, but most folks don't practice or have the experience to put those kindsa shots in their comfort zones.

It dosent sound like proper setup or attention to the shots or animals were applied here....simply "OOOooo das a beeg buk! Get eet!"

Which absolutely happens, and will happen again.....

Hopefully the party(ies) involved will be less crappy about it....... And not plastered all over the internet. Trying to get out in front of a bad situation.

 

[Frulk]

We've plowed this ground before on a different thread but I’ll recap my comments then…

Speaking for myself only: 600-730 yard shots are well beyond my personal limitation of what I consider hunting an animal and now into the realm of ‘shooting’ one.

It seems like the only one to come out of this situation unscathed is Outdoor Life. Good on em!

 

[WestKentucky]

I have seen a few different YouTube videos and written articles covering this situation. Everything about it seems screwed up in some way shape or form. Radio collar deer, big name hunter, unethical shots, poor shots, etc. I get the fact that there is a trophy animal involved and I understand the feeling and excitement in the moment, but if there’s ever been a a more messed up ordeal it would be featured on a 90s film re-enacted by Dorf.

 

[S.Crockett]

I didn’t read the article , but around here most people go by who shoots and recovers the deer last claims it . There was an incident in my old hunting club last year . A member shot a nice buck and it ran a short distance and he heard it fall . He was hunting from a climbing stand . He was going to wait for about 30 minutes and then go check on the deer . In the mean time one of the dog drivers walks his way and the buck jumps up . He shoots it , kills it and then claims it . There was a big stink over that situation . But in the end the last guy claimed the buck . I myself would have let the first shooter have the buck in that situation . If were sitting on my stand and that buck came running by me and I killed it , then I would claim it .

This clearly falls under “D.O.T.J.,” which means: Depends on the Jurisdiction.

There are different ways in different states of resolving the ultimate question of “who’s deer is it?” Sometimes it depends on local tradition and customs. Best to know the lay of the land beforehand.

 

[BreechFace]

This clearly falls under “D.O.T.J.,” which means: Depends on the Jurisdiction.

There are different ways in different states of resolving the ultimate question of “who’s deer is it?” Sometimes it depends on local tradition and customs. Best to know the lay of the land beforehand.

Here we watch as some cultured southern gentleman debate the issue:

WOW!

At least the younger "southern gentlemen" had some sense to know that it wasn't worth ending a guys life over, and put the revolver down.

All over a deer? It didn't look like anyone was starving there. No malnutrition. White Castle's just around the corner and money in their pocket...

Good grief!

And with videos like this you always have a women screaming in the background; but the males in the scenario have long checked that tone out.

 

[S.Crockett]

WOW!

All over a deer? It didn't look like anyone was starving there. No malnutrition. White Castle's just around the corner and money in their pocket...

Good grief!

And with videos like this you always have a women screaming in the background; but the males in the scenario have long checked that tone out.

Yep, over a deer.

Shot in one spot but before deceasing it ran to a second spot located on the land of the two gentlemen seen confronting the apparent (or assumed) trespasser on the video, … said gentleman being somehow related to the screeching female.

 

[BreechFace]

So the guy trespassed and got belligerent…brilliant. Came away with a couple of shiner's no doubt, and in need of stitches, a body man for the damage to his truck and a ticket to appear in court.

Probably, should come with a peace offering of beer and a roll of grizzly next time and ask if he can collect his deer that expired on the gentleman’s property.

 

[red rick]

Here in Virginia you can’t go on another person’s property to retrieve an animal . You can go on private property to retrieve your dogs , without permission , but you can’t drive or carry a firearm . Public hunting land is right across from me , if someone asked me if they could retrieve a animal shot on public land I would let them , but if I saw them shooting into my property as it left my property in the ditch , or road and it ran back into my property and died , I would not and I would be calling the game warden . Hunters in trucks line up on the opposite side of my property when their hounds cross into my property all the time . The only shot they have is to shoot it in the ditch , or road . It is too thick once the deer gets into the woods for a good shot . The county and the game department allow this kind of hunting , even though it is unlawful to shoot in , or across the road , or into private property .

 

[H&Hhunter]

I’ve seen people go plum crazy over a trophy critter. And it looks like that’s what happened here.

When I was much younger in my late 20’s I was guiding my brother on a pronghorn hunt. He shot a nice buck with his .30-06 at about 300 yards dropping it in its tracks.

As we were walking over to it up pulls a pick up with a loud mouth scrappy little Texan claiming “first blood” on my brother’s buck. I suggested we go have a look. The buck clearly had one .30 cal bullets through the heart and not another mark on it. At which the mouthy little Texican claimed that he’d shot it in the heart with his .25-06 and it ran the mile or so over to us where it died.

My 20 something year old ego was 100% willing to go to blows with that guy and it almost came to that.

My brother tagged his buck.

Given the same situation today my 50 something year old ego would have given the Texican the buck, gotten a good laugh out of it and we’d have got to shoot another one!

 

[westernrover]

My son and I stalked a muley buck in October from a ridge above. We got about half-way down the ridge and set up for a shot at about 150 yards. My son who is inexperienced, fired and missed clean. His marksmanship on paper targets is good out past 250 yards, but here he jerked the trigger and the bullet went high. We waited there a while and then saw another hunter come up from down in the bottom of the canyon. Obviously, we had no idea he was there. My son's shot did not present any danger to him, but it certainly ended his stalk. It wasn't a trophy buck, but I greatly appreciated that he simply walked away without saying anything. Had we seen him, we would have just sat still and watched through our glass. Instead, our shot mucked everything up and I'm sure it was rotten for him. I'm grateful he was man enough to just take it and move on. I didn't try to apologize because my son hadn't done anything wrong and I didn't want him to think he had. It was just a rotten misfortune. If the man had wanted an apology, I wouldn't have resisted him, but I still wouldn't let my son take the blame. I had called the shot, (though my son fires or not when he's ready). In any event, he was 100 yards off and walking away when we saw him and I wasn't about to start hollering.

A couple years ago, we were on the other end. We had stalked two bucks from a ridgeline above. My son had clear shots on a buck twice but didn't take them. The bucks were moving down the bottom of a canyon. At the end of the canyon just before it opens wide, we stopped because the bucks were just out of sight below us. We couldn't move further down because we'd be right on top of them. We decided to wait it out. Then two hunters came over the far ridge opposite us. One shot and killed the best buck and the other ran. It was a bummer for us, but they hadn't done anything wrong. A few days later, my son killed a different buck.

Neither of these circumstances were the same as having shot a buck and then had another hunter finish it. If that were to occur, I'd be grateful the kill was completed without further protracted suffering. I'd defer to the other hunter whether they thought it was theirs or not. Had we shot it the day before and a mile away, I'd just be grateful that it was over. Had we shot it moments before in the same place, I haven't met a fellow hunter that wouldn't give it to my son. Either way, I wouldn't dispute. My son's tag would still be good and there are other deer. I'm never in a hurry to end the hunt anyway.

The next year, we were in a different unit hundreds of miles away. We backpacked into a designated wilderness area farther than anyone else was willing (in the snow at 5 below). Got a buck and saw no one else around. That's the way to do it, but it's hard. The two events above were both in one other unit. That unit has got a lot more deer and a lot more hunters. Tags are way easier to draw, but it's tough to have much space to yourself. If the deer are there, we see at least a few other hunters every day, sometimes more. Even early archery season is no good because the herd is migratory and they're in a different unit in September.

 

[shoobe01]

It dosent sound like proper setup or attention to the shots or animals were applied here....simply "OOOooo das a beeg buk! Get eet!"

This.

Entirely aside from other distance stuff, his party was there for a while (the other party position isn't as well described as I have read) and he didn't make a range card, even in his head, so he at least knows some landmarks for the limits of what his dope will do before he has to re-range? Deer disappear behind a treeline and you don't range the edge of the treeline?

I hope this sort of stuff can be a teachable moment or three, not just for ethics and morals but also to keep in mind best practices so fewer make such mistakes and have what was it, EIGHT shots (4 "hits") to take down one animal?

 

[marksman13]

After watching a couple of videos and reading both party’s accounts, I think what actually happened in the original scenario was much different than what the young lady put out on social media. She was first to air the dirty laundry and therefor seen in a more positive light.

 

[Hookeye]

Never saw her in a more positive light
Or her husband.
Whole thing sounds like nonsense.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Being a published professional outdoor/hunting writer, social media influencer and “celebrity” does not come without repercussions in today’s world of instant access to information.

Aram’s rebuttal was extremely self incriminating. Some of the low points were;

Admitting to a non ranged hurried 730 yard shot at a deer. This is absolutely inexcusable for a guy makes a living writing about ethical long range hunting.

Admitting that he hadn’t seen the radio collar before or after initially shooting the deer. This statement proves that he didn’t take the time to adequately glass or range the deer before lighting off a shot.

Later making the accusation that Cox had somehow used the collar to track the deer. This is absolutely ridiculous and the contrived fantasy of a desperate soul.

Aram admits that he wasn’t wearing the required orange to be legally hunting. Not a good look for a writer who lectures and publishes ethical hunting articles.

That being said I don’t buy off on Mrs. Cox story in regards to Aram being aggressive or pushy towards her either.

There have been some epic memes posted however. Here are some for entertainment purposes only.

Disclaimer I do not endorse, agree with or take sides in this issue. I think both parties are guilty of unethical practices.

 

[CraigC]

I think they're all D-bags. First of all, a new hunter shouldn't be shooting at critters at 600yds. Most experienced hunters shouldn't be taking that shot and I could take it further than that but I won't here. She fired four times and missed three of them. Elmer Keith had a better hit ratio with his 6.5" S&W. In my mind, there's no recovering from that fact. Secondly, she wounded it. I don't think that entitles you to anything but doing everything you can to recover the animal. He's a jagoff for taking an unmeasured 730yd shot, as guilty as she and her knothead husband are. All three should be horsewhipped for it. However, Aram did kill it. IMHO, that entitles him to the buck. He didn't "steal it", that's just hysterics. If you heart-shoot a deer that runs onto my property and dies, that's your buck. If you gut shoot a deer that runs onto my property and I kill it outright, that's my buck.

If this were another forum, there would be a lot more colorful language in this post because I have a very, very low opinion of all those involved.

 

[shoobe01]

For reasons not relevant to this, I've fallen into reading a bunch of climbing lessons-learned articles and chatting with friends about them (like this one: https://www.climbing.com/skills/cli...werfVdW4ovEMPjDDR15uy0Y26jxuoW80jRS1WAs-aoAB8) and one I am noticing is that a LOT of these are realizing something is wrong with their setup (or their partners), and just noping out. Even to the level of day 3 of a whole trip flying somewhere to climb and... naw, not climbing today, too dangerous.

We could use more attitude like that in the shooting sports, not to mention hunting. Forgot your orange? Ask around to borrow or: back home you go. Too far for your rig and skill, too windy, bad lighting, obscured: don't take the shot.

I wouldn't say climbers aren't more apt to go-fever than hunters to buck-fever (et al) but have really, really baked in a safety culture, and too often I think we're letting "personal responsibility" and "big boy rules" override laws, ethics, civility, and safety.

 

[H&Hhunter]

This whole fiasco is an example of why I’m getting sick and tired of hunting much public land.

I’m all about giving people their space. If I pull into a spot and somebody else is there I move on. If someone wounds something I’d never dream of jumping ahead on the trail and finishing it off so I could tag it. I’m absolutely not interested in claiming something I didn’t initially shoot as my own.

I’ve witnessed several incidents where scum sucking puss brains have rushed in to tag a critter someone else killed.

It seems to be getting worse every year. I have one head hanging on my wall that someone other than myself or my wife or kids killed. That’s a Coues Deer my dad killed in NM back in 1986.

I wouldn’t dream of buying a set of trophy antlers to display. If I didn’t put in the time and effort and sweat equity it won’t be on my wall.

Measuring one’s self worth via antler score has gone way way too far.

I wonder how much of this new rabid attitude is brought on by the constant barrage of trophy first everything else last that is the outdoor entertainment industry?

 

[WisBorn]

Measuring one’s self worth via antler score has gone way way too far.

This is a part of the problem!
How about personal best, what an area will produce, sweat equity, and the joy of the hunt! Being a sportsmen and an ethical person!!!

 

[James Collins]

Following this post now from the other!

 

[redneck]

I want to be successful when I go out, but at the same time I enjoy the hunting much more than the killing. Some of my favorite days in the woods this year I came back empty handed. While I'm not one to work hard for something and just let someone else take it, I also just can't get that worked up over a deer to be in a fight. If somebody else has an honest interest in the deer, like they shot it and it ran across the property line it's pretty easy for me to say they can have it and I can keep hunting. If they are trespassing when they shoot it or otherwise being unethical that becomes a different can of worms, but for me the meat in the freezer isn't as important as the experience of stalking, making the shot, bringing it in and butchering it etc.

I have had to deal with some trespassers and it always amazes me that people are willing to go out and break the law, where they know other people are armed and then be belligerent on top of it. Some people just need to post antlers on their social media and don't care how they pull it off I guess. Those folks are out for the wrong reasons. I don't think either party in this story has much to be proud of and certainly nothing to brag about.