I'm a BP novice as you can see in my other thread asking for advice. Here's a story regarding fouling from this week - I shot ~4 rounds through my .54 Hawken, and then I decided to swab the barrel. I put a patch all the way down the bore, and then as I start to pull it back - it sticks about 1.5" from the lock (so I only have about 3-4" of rod to pull on to try to remove it). I struggle with it for awhile :banghead:, and then I remember some of the things I've read on here and think, maybe if I remove the nipple and put a few pinches of powder down the breach (is that the right term?) - I can just unscrew the rod from the patch tool and "shoot" it out. It worked - I shot it into some sand and recovered the tool. Was this good problem solving or did I almost blow myself up?
Patch tool stuck in barrel
- Thread starter Box T
- Start date
- Status
It appears you missed one step that could have damaged the barrel: you need to reseat the 'projectile' on the powder charge. It's very poor practice to leave a gap between the powder and the projectile. Can cause a bulge or in extreme cases a rupture in the barrel.
I pushed the rod back into the barrel as far as I could, but there might have been some space (~1 inch at most). As a general question - how big of a gap between powder and projectile starts to cause problems? Let's say I'm loading a miniball or something and I don't think its quite down, say 1" shy from tight on the powder. Should I get agressive with it trying to ram it down, or is the 1" gap not really a problem?
280shooter
Member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2008
- Messages
- 707
Are you using round ball or something else,if ur using round ball.and if ur round ball is 530,u should us a .015 patch,and if u were out at the range,and u wanted to clean out your bore befor you shoot anymore, try using a bore brush,,run it down after everyshot,turn the barrel towards the ground and tap the barrel,most crud will drop out,take your rod and while the gun is empty,drop it in the barrel,put a mark on your rod,nowwhen u load your gun,again mark your ram rod,now when you load your gun,, you'll know if your ball is seated all the way to the bottom, now do i think you hurt something when u shot ur bore rag or what ever it was,i dont think so,,but u can really break it,,be carefull when u load,make sure you take your load all the way to the bottom,,use lube,try bore buttter,from T/C
arcticap
Member
A pinch of powder in an empty barrel with only a patch puller in it probably couldn't bulge a barrel even if it was done repeatedly.
It's only a theoretical concern when there is a "bona fide" powder load in the breech under a loaded projectile.
IIRC, when I asked, no one recalled or ever mentioned discovering a PRB that had actually moved off of a powder charge as a result of a misfire, unless I missed it.
Buy a thick wooden dowel from the hardware store or Walmart for $1 that's just under bore size and use it as a range ramrod. It will give you more length & a better grip for ramming. Or consider buying a T handle or an extension for your present ramrod to give you some extra length.
Click on "ramrods and accessories" for ideas about ramrods & handles:
http://rmcsports.com/catalog.htm
It's only a theoretical concern when there is a "bona fide" powder load in the breech under a loaded projectile.
IIRC, when I asked, no one recalled or ever mentioned discovering a PRB that had actually moved off of a powder charge as a result of a misfire, unless I missed it.
Buy a thick wooden dowel from the hardware store or Walmart for $1 that's just under bore size and use it as a range ramrod. It will give you more length & a better grip for ramming. Or consider buying a T handle or an extension for your present ramrod to give you some extra length.
Click on "ramrods and accessories" for ideas about ramrods & handles:
http://rmcsports.com/catalog.htm
Last edited:
Macmac
Member
You were wiping an other wise un-loaded bore right?
My best guess is the patches are too big. Getting these stuck is common when the patches are too big.
Reduce the cleaning patch size for one thing. It should cover the jag and no more.
There is a bronze tool that fits most ram rods, and the harder you pull it the harder it grabs the rod, and it does use both hands to pull. These can be handy.
A bottle of rubbing alcohol will usually produce fast results as well. With the rod still screwed to the jag, pour some rubbing alcohol down the bore and give it a few seconds, then see if the rod, jag and patch will come up.
Just get you hand dirty next time you shoot and pour some rubbing alcohol in your palm to feel how slimey that gets!
Warning if you have cuts it is gonna sting!
If I were you I would refrain from shooting jags. Brass in general should not harm a steel bore, but I can see a few problems shooting out jags just the same.
The question of air gap? Never have any air gap. Sure you might get away with it, but learning a bad habit isn't going to extend life for long.
My best guess is the patches are too big. Getting these stuck is common when the patches are too big.
Reduce the cleaning patch size for one thing. It should cover the jag and no more.
There is a bronze tool that fits most ram rods, and the harder you pull it the harder it grabs the rod, and it does use both hands to pull. These can be handy.
A bottle of rubbing alcohol will usually produce fast results as well. With the rod still screwed to the jag, pour some rubbing alcohol down the bore and give it a few seconds, then see if the rod, jag and patch will come up.
Just get you hand dirty next time you shoot and pour some rubbing alcohol in your palm to feel how slimey that gets!
Warning if you have cuts it is gonna sting!
If I were you I would refrain from shooting jags. Brass in general should not harm a steel bore, but I can see a few problems shooting out jags just the same.
The question of air gap? Never have any air gap. Sure you might get away with it, but learning a bad habit isn't going to extend life for long.
mycarz28, Articap - good suggestions, thank you both.
Macmac - yes, it was unloaded, I'll get some thinner patches, good idea. Hopefully between that and revising my cleaning methodology to eliminate petrol-based products in the barrel will resolve this issue for me. But if it happens again, I'll definitely remember to try some rubbing alcohol. Thanks!
Macmac - yes, it was unloaded, I'll get some thinner patches, good idea. Hopefully between that and revising my cleaning methodology to eliminate petrol-based products in the barrel will resolve this issue for me. But if it happens again, I'll definitely remember to try some rubbing alcohol. Thanks!
bigbadgun
Member
If you are at the range can you use a brass wire bore brush instead of a patch? Just to knock down the fouling and still continue to shoot? And if so how well this effect accuracy? Still learning about my long gun.
SASS#23149
Member
You can alos just pour some water down there and it will come right out.
dry thouroughly with a SMALLER patch,and ur good to go.
dry thouroughly with a SMALLER patch,and ur good to go.
sundance44s
Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2006
- Messages
- 1,473
Those co2 gizmos work great ...might be worth investing in one ..after all there are those that have never dry balled a load and brag about it , and then there are those that admit it happens ...it does happen , it will happen , and yes it can happen to anyone ...even ME ! After 30 years of me saying it will never happen I did it last summer , talking and loading ..these gizmos are easy to carry in your shooting box , and are hard to beat for easy ball extracting , patch and Jag extracting ...ect.
Macmac
Member
Box T,
Cleaning patches are often times too big.. Just way too big. I can't tell you how much to big yours are because I can't see them. I have no idea how big the jag you have is either, and these varry widely from apx 3/8" to nearly 1" as the working part.
I have suffered this sticking many times, and to the point I have decided that to at least myself the cloth needs to be supported by the jag, and any above the jag is risking getting the ram rod stuck.
So I limit the amount of cloth above the jag to about 1/2" free cloth.
More than that and the cloth rolls up and wedges tight.
When I clean, I use water alone, and hot water if there is any, but with a stuck jag I do what I must to get alcohol.
I do this anyway I can, because burnt powder and alcohol are some slick! Like soap on a stuck finger ring...
I have been forced shooting, to get alcohol, and that I get in the windshield washer fluid bottle.
Since then because I can be something of a wise ass in the 18th and early 19th century I have sewn a leather pocket to fit an old bottle on the shoulder strap to my "Possibles" pouch. In that I put in real sippin' rum, and after the days shooting I may pour a few drops in the bore while people wonder what that brown stuff is, and take a hit! This is always good for a gag, as by this time everyone has decided I have some sort of gun cleaner in the bottle and I just drank some.
Well it is gun cleaner, and it cleans me out pretty well too!
Cleaning patches are often times too big.. Just way too big. I can't tell you how much to big yours are because I can't see them. I have no idea how big the jag you have is either, and these varry widely from apx 3/8" to nearly 1" as the working part.
I have suffered this sticking many times, and to the point I have decided that to at least myself the cloth needs to be supported by the jag, and any above the jag is risking getting the ram rod stuck.
So I limit the amount of cloth above the jag to about 1/2" free cloth.
More than that and the cloth rolls up and wedges tight.
When I clean, I use water alone, and hot water if there is any, but with a stuck jag I do what I must to get alcohol.
I do this anyway I can, because burnt powder and alcohol are some slick! Like soap on a stuck finger ring...
I have been forced shooting, to get alcohol, and that I get in the windshield washer fluid bottle.
Since then because I can be something of a wise ass in the 18th and early 19th century I have sewn a leather pocket to fit an old bottle on the shoulder strap to my "Possibles" pouch. In that I put in real sippin' rum, and after the days shooting I may pour a few drops in the bore while people wonder what that brown stuff is, and take a hit! This is always good for a gag, as by this time everyone has decided I have some sort of gun cleaner in the bottle and I just drank some.
Well it is gun cleaner, and it cleans me out pretty well too!
Macmac
Member
Oh I should add,,,,,, Ho Ho Ho... Once I had no means of getting any alcohol, and so I added powder and fired the entire ram rod out, and prompty lost it in the bushes. I hunted a long time and never found it.
Another time that happened again, but this time I was a little more ready.
I shot that rammer straight up and even caught it before it landed. As little as 4 grains of FFg will launch a rod pretty far... Turn you back to the sun as well...
Another time that happened again, but this time I was a little more ready.
I shot that rammer straight up and even caught it before it landed. As little as 4 grains of FFg will launch a rod pretty far... Turn you back to the sun as well...
hamourkiller
Member
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2007
- Messages
- 215
Did you have a bore cleaner on the patch? I find Hoppes plus is great for Roundball patch and bore cleaning. Dry patched once and had to do as you did.
Nothing works as well for me as the powder in the nipple hole. CO2 works ok but the BP clears the obstruction right away. Seems I have loaded the ball prior to the powder a couple of times and had to get it out in this manner as well.
I shoot like I will hunt when sighting in, clean all oil from bore using rubbing alcohol, fire couple of caps, load and fire. Reload and fire second shot. Then clean barrel back to very clean condition.
For general shooting session I like to wipe when the crud ring at the bottom of the barrel starts crunching when I seat the roundball.
For general info, I have gone to .58 and .62 for my Roundball shooting, the Green Mountain drop in barrels with 1"x70" twist are terribly accurate. GM had the .62 smooth on sale for $100. Call and see if they have any left. I bought 2 of the 4 they had.
Here is my .58 TC Hawken going off.
This is the 50yd group, which has only gotten better as the barrel broke in.
This is my .58 Flintlock
And its group at 50yds
Have fun with the BP!
Nothing works as well for me as the powder in the nipple hole. CO2 works ok but the BP clears the obstruction right away. Seems I have loaded the ball prior to the powder a couple of times and had to get it out in this manner as well.
I shoot like I will hunt when sighting in, clean all oil from bore using rubbing alcohol, fire couple of caps, load and fire. Reload and fire second shot. Then clean barrel back to very clean condition.
For general shooting session I like to wipe when the crud ring at the bottom of the barrel starts crunching when I seat the roundball.
For general info, I have gone to .58 and .62 for my Roundball shooting, the Green Mountain drop in barrels with 1"x70" twist are terribly accurate. GM had the .62 smooth on sale for $100. Call and see if they have any left. I bought 2 of the 4 they had.
Here is my .58 TC Hawken going off.
This is the 50yd group, which has only gotten better as the barrel broke in.
This is my .58 Flintlock
And its group at 50yds
Have fun with the BP!
Failing to seat the ball fully down on the powder charge is not going to bulge the barrel. What bulges a barrel is the heat generated when a bullet's motion is stopped (as at a barrel obstruction) and its kinetic energy is converted to heat.
Jim
Jim
hildo
Member
Stuck bullet in front side of the barrel
What Jim Keenan says... I found to be correct.
At that time I had my antique M1777 .69 kolonial flintlock musket filled with 80 grains of powder.
The first time I loaded it.
Rammed the ball in, without a patch, but it got stuck after maybe 6 inches in the barrel. This old barrel was not the same width everywhere. Could not get it further down the bore, and could not get it out either.
Decided, not knowing what I know now, to shoot the bullet out.
The musket was fired and the ball was out. My musket is still in fine condition.
However, I would not recommend anybody to shoot a BP firearm without fully seating the projectile onto the powder charge.
I would not do it again.
Hildo
What Jim Keenan says... I found to be correct.
At that time I had my antique M1777 .69 kolonial flintlock musket filled with 80 grains of powder.
The first time I loaded it.
Rammed the ball in, without a patch, but it got stuck after maybe 6 inches in the barrel. This old barrel was not the same width everywhere. Could not get it further down the bore, and could not get it out either.
Decided, not knowing what I know now, to shoot the bullet out.
The musket was fired and the ball was out. My musket is still in fine condition.
However, I would not recommend anybody to shoot a BP firearm without fully seating the projectile onto the powder charge.
I would not do it again.
Hildo
Macmac
Member
Well I am not so sure I agree as I have seen 2 TC barrels with bulges about 8 inches up from the breech.
I wasn't around to see how these came to be ruined barrels as they were for sale cheap at a gun show in Maine.
While I don't know what the cause was I know these barrrels were junk.
I wasn't around to see how these came to be ruined barrels as they were for sale cheap at a gun show in Maine.
While I don't know what the cause was I know these barrrels were junk.
sundance44s
Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2006
- Messages
- 1,473
I`ve seen alot of folks shoot short started balls just target shooting ...no problem , no bulge ..these were light loads , round ball and 50 or 60 grs of powder .....on the other hand I`ve seen a 50 cal short started with a hunting load ..110 grs of powder under a BUFFALO BULLET ..split the barrel like a banana .
1KPerDay
Member
LOL
Macmac
Member
The point here is he had no charge and a jag stuck, with no other load under it.
That point again is he unscrewed the rod and so left the threaded end fore most in the bore. In theory shooting that out should not harm a steel bore, but it does make me wonder.
My point is there was too much patch which gagged on the jag.
My next point was rubbing alcohol makes it like removing a too tight finger ring with dish soap.
That point again is he unscrewed the rod and so left the threaded end fore most in the bore. In theory shooting that out should not harm a steel bore, but it does make me wonder.
My point is there was too much patch which gagged on the jag.
My next point was rubbing alcohol makes it like removing a too tight finger ring with dish soap.
- Status
Similar threads
