Pennsylvania residents, in particular, take note

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alan

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Federal Lawsuit Takes On Pennsylvania Abuse Of Gun Owner Privacy

Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org

Wednesday, November 30, 2005


Anyone looking for a pro-freedom 2005 tax deduction? If so, please
consider making a contribution to help Gun Owners Foundation fight
gun control in the Pennsylvania courts before the end of the year.

As residents of the state know, the Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act
(UFA) requires gun owners to disclose their Social Security Numbers
to dealers and Sheriffs when transferring guns or when applying for a
License to Carry Firearms (LTCF).

The law even requires that the Social Security Numbers be printed
upon the license to carry!

It's bad enough that the state of Pennsylvania requires people to
register themselves as gun owners in order to exercise their right to
bear arms. (The states of Vermont and Alaska allow their citizens to
carry firearms -- without being registered -- and enjoy very low
levels of crime.)

But it gets quite aggravating when the state facilitates that
registration system by linking gun owners to their Social Security
Number (a number which the sponsors of the original SSN system
decades ago promised would never become a National ID number.)

Registration leads to confiscation. That has been the history of
registration in other countries, and it has even occurred in our own
country (for example, in New York City under Mayor David Dinkin's
administration).

Well, an ongoing SSN/gun rights lawsuit (Stollenwerk v. Miller et
al.) now challenges the UFA's requirement that gun owners disclose
their social security numbers.

The lawsuit has been going well so far, but things are getting hot
and heavy and more money is needed to win in district court and then
prevail on a likely appeal.

If this lawsuit prevails, SSN disclosures to gun dealers and Sheriffs
will become optional and all LTCF holders will be able to get a new
license without their Social Security numbers printed upon it.

Additionally, the ruling would provide persuasive case law authority
to fix other states' abuses of gun owner SSN privacy rights, and
allow the federal courts in Pennsylvania to explicitly recognize
Article 1, Section 21 of the Pennsylvania Constitution as providing
an individual right to bear arms -- something that the Pennsylvania
Supreme Court already did in Ortiz v. Commonwealth, 681 A.2d 152, 156
(Pa. 1996) holding that the "ownership of firearms is
constitutionally protected" under the Pennsylvania constitution.

You may send tax deductible contributions to support this lawsuit
through GOA's "Gun Owners Foundation." Just visit the GOF
website at
http://www.gunowners.com/stollenwerk.htm and make your contribution
by credit card.

Or, you can contribute by mail. Write the check to "Gun Owners
Foundation," and then on the memo line, write "Stollenwerk
Assistance
Fund," and address the envelope to:

Gun Owners Foundation
8001 Forbes Place
Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151

All contributors will get an e-mailed receipt, followed by a printed
thank you note and documentation of the **tax deductible** status of
their contribution from Gun Owners Foundation.

Thank you!

-----------------------

NOTE: The court case is Stollenwerk v. Miller et al., Docket No.
04-5510, UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT, FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF
PENNSYLVANIA. The lawsuit was filed under Section 1983 of the
federal Civil Rights Act to vindicate gun owners' "privacy rights as
protected by the federal Privacy Act of 1974, Pub. L. 93-579, 88
Stat. 1896, 2194, 5 U.S.C. 552a (note), the Second and Fourteenth
Amendment of the United States Constitution and Article I, Sections 1
and 21 of Pennsylvania's State Constitution." See
http://www.gunowners.com/stollenwerk.pdf for the complete brief.


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Does it really matter if they have one more piece of info on you? I'm not in favor of offering it up, but lets be realistic, your drivers license already has your SS number attached to it. They can find anything they want with just your name and address. Big Brother is already here.:(
 
Meta said:
Does it really matter if they have one more piece of info on you? I'm not in favor of offering it up, but lets be realistic, your drivers license already has your SS number attached to it. They can find anything they want with just your name and address. Big Brother is already here.:(

This thing may not be the death of Big Brother, but gosh, its' good to see someone at least trying to chip away at him.
 
Uuuummmmm....I'm confused. On your ATF papers when you buy a new gun, you have to give them your SSN. And on the PA tax forms I did, I had to give it to them. So the problem is?

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see the problem. Can someone please clarify?
 
Your SSN is not printed ON your driver's license. Although relatively easy to get through other means (anyone else a college student? 'nuff said), if your wallet was stolen and your CCW had your SSN on it it would practically invite someone to commit identity theft.
 
I'm not familiar with the ATF form number's. But I know the last 2 rifles I bought required that I put my SSN on them. Both FFL's told me I had to now. When buying a gun, is the 4473 the one you are filling out? Or is it something else?

Thanks for the clarification guys!!
 
Am I retarded or is there no way to check out after adding a donation to your shopping cart?
 
exoduster18 said:
I'm not familiar with the ATF form number's. But I know the last 2 rifles I bought required that I put my SSN on them. Both FFL's told me I had to now. When buying a gun, is the 4473 the one you are filling out? Or is it something else?

Thanks for the clarification guys!!

You filled out the 4473 when you bought your rifles. There is a place for your SSN, but you are NOT required to enter it. IIRC it even says so on the form. If the salesman told you you "must," he was mistaken.
 
The salesman at both places told me I had to. The one was at Ackley's in Westfield and the other was the guy at Elf County Ammo and Arms in St. Mary's. I asked them both if I had to and they said that it was now law that I provided it. Come to think of it they told my mother's boyfriend that he had to too for the gun he was purchasing.
 
I just called the ATF Field Office Industry Operations in Seattle. The SSN is optional. If your dealers are requiring SSN disclosure, then that's on them, not the ATF. Do business with a different dealer.
 
oh ok, so it's not required then? Good, but its to late already for me then. The ATF already has mine then.
 
exoduster18 said:
oh ok, so it's not required then? Good, but its to late already for me then. The ATF already has mine then.

No they don't.

4473s can only be taken by the BATFE for certain purposes like if a dealer goes out of business.

Besides you had a boating accident on Lake Erie
 
I was told this too. IIRC, it is a Pennsylvania thing. I think that they read the person's SSN back to you when you call in the instant check in PA and that is why you have to put the SSN down.
 
When you buy a handgun in PA you have to fill out a PA handgun form and a Federal form. The Pa form requires the SSN while on the Federal form it's optional. There is no PA form when you buy a long gun.
 
LAR-15 - I had a boating accident on Lake Erie? When was this? I've only been there once and I sure as hell wasn't on a boat when I was there. Or is it sarcasm? I don't do well with sarcasm in print. I'm really confused.......
 
I'm not so sure I'm comfortable challenging the UFA... This is the law that keeps Philly and Pittsburg from coming up with their own more restrictive laws... Wouldn't the whole Act be struck down if the SSN portion is? Personally I'd prefer that they didn't print the SSN on the LTCF but as far as giving them my SSN so they can differentiate me from some other yahoo who might have a flag in the system is OK by me...
 
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