Picking the Right Dies - Pulling Out My Hair

[ajeaton]

Very frustrated reloading newbie here (first post)!! I am having hell deciding which dies to use. I have gotten lots of different advice and am looking to consolidate ya'lls wisdom. Gonna use a Hornady LNL AP press, gonna reload mainly .45 ACP, .50 AE, .500 S&W Mag, .308 Win (semi-auto), and .223 Rem (semi-auto). Now the questions:

1. Preferred brand? (pros/cons)

2. Use separate crimping die or seat/crimp together? (advantages/disadv.)

3. Carbide or Steel? (Should you use lube with carbide anyways?)

4. Do I need to use small base dies for .223 & .308 semi-autos?

Any and all help with be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the length and multiple questions. Thanks.

 

[cfullgraf]

For straight walled handgun cases, carbide dies are the way to go. I don't lubricate with carbide dies but there was a thread recently that some folks say there is a benefit.

If your semi-auto rifles have standard chambers, full length sizing will generally be fine particularly if you resize cases fired in your rifle. Things get fuzzy with regards to small base dies with tight or match chambers or with cases fired in other firearms.

Full length sizing is a must with semi-auto rifles.

Generally, carbide dies are not available for bottle neck cartridges and even then, the cases must be lubricated. Save your money and just get steel dies.

I prefer Redding dies but also have Hornady and RCBS.

 

[snuffy]

1. Preferred brand? (pros/cons)
Any of the major die companies equipment will work. Some are more expensive, their finish is better, but don't produce better ammo. Since you're using a progessive, stay away from competition dies like forster or Redding.
2. Use separate crimping die or seat/crimp together? (advantages/disadv.)
Seating and crimping handgun ammo can be done in one die IF the cases are all the same length. Most people don't bother to trim handgun cases so use of a taper crimp for auto cases is best.
3. Carbide or Steel? (Should you use lube with carbide anyways?)
Carbide for handgun, steel for rifle. You CAN lube brass when using carbide dies, it runs much smoother. Those that do use very little, a squirt or two of spray lube and tumble them in a bowl is all that's needed.
4. Do I need to use small base dies for .223 & .308 semi-autos?
Big war about this on this and other forums. Some say it's a definite need, others,(like me), say it's NOT needed. It only has to be done the first time, then use a standard FL,(full length), die.

Any and all help with be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the length and multiple questions. Thanks.

Why? You need the info, it was well written, AND it certainly wasn't too long!

 

[chris in va]

Carbide for the pistol calibers, Pacesetter three die for the rifles, unless you need to neck size only for a bolt gun.

 

[Walkalong]

1. Preferred brand? (pros/cons)

RCBS, but any will work well.

2. Use separate crimping die or seat/crimp together? (advantages/disadv.)

For auto calibers like 9MM, .40, .45 etc, seating and crimping in one step is not a problem. For revolver rounds using lead with a good crimp groove seating and crimping in one step is not a problem. For jacketed with a good cannelure it isn't an issue either. When using a heavy taper crimp on a plated or jacketed bullet you must crimp in a separate step.

It is, of course. easier to set up using a separate step to crimp. Also, if you crimp in a separate step you can adjust the amount of crimp for different applications without bothering the seating stem. That is the biggest advantage to me. I crimp in a separate step for probably 85% of my pistol loading.

3. Carbide or Steel? (Should you use lube with carbide anyways?)

Carbide for a mile. You don't need to lube, but with lube it is effortless. If you were to size 1000 .44 Mag cases in one sitting lube would be good.

4. Do I need to use small base dies for .223 & .308 semi-autos?

Two different camps on this one. Me? I do not own any. I am in the "only if the standard sizer won't get it done" camp.

Any and all help with be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the length and multiple questions. Thanks.

No trouble at all. We like helping or we wouldn't be here.

Weclome to THR. AC

 

[Sam1911]

1. Preferred brand? (pros/cons)

There doesn't seem to be much reason to go with high priced dies. Lee dies make great ammo for very little money. I've shot many MANY thousands of rounds made on Lee dies and they all worked just fine. If you become a very advanced precision rifle shooter at some point, you may find that some of the very high end dies offer specific benefits. By the time you are "there" you'll know what those benefits may be and why/if you want to spend the money on them.

2. Use separate crimping die or seat/crimp together? (advantages/disadv.)

Not much reason to go either way. I often do crimp as a separate step, but with autopistol rounds I tend to use a Lee Factory Crimp Die as a sort of check-station or case gauge (if the round goes through that die, it WILL chamber) anyway, so I just set the crimp there, too. With revolver rounds, I prefer to crimp with the seat/crimp die as I get a better roll crimp that way.

A lot of shooters don't crimp rifle dies at all, but count on neck tension to keep the bullet in place. Better precision ammo, but less secure in a repeating rifle.

3. Carbide or Steel? (Should you use lube with carbide anyways?)

Oh carbide, definitely, for straight-wall cartridges. I don't lube at all with carbide. Less mess, less hassle. Obviously, bottle-necked rifle cases do get lubed.

4. Do I need to use small base dies for .223 & .308 semi-autos?

Not until/unless your gun proves it won't work with ammo full-length-sized on regular dies.

 

[Steve in PA]

1) RCBS. 20 years worth of reloading, I have no complaints.

2) Seat and crimp in one step. If you use lead bullets, some say doing them in seperate steps is the way to go.

3) Carbide!!! .380, 9mm, .38/.357, 44mag and .45acp!!!

4) Regular dies for all reloads in my AR and M1 Garand.

 

[MtnCreek]

AJEaton, These guys have given you great advice. I will add my two cents (probably worth less than that). As for sizing the rifle dies, I would go with a small base dies. You can iron out surplus MG brass better w/ the small base IMVHO.

If I were you, I would find a cheap used single stage press to learn the ropes. There is just too much going on with a progressive press when learning to load (for me anyway). See if you can find a Lee for around $25.

 

[suzukisam]

I like lee dies for a couple reasons. adjusting the knob to set your oal is much easier no lock nuts or anything. they have the charge through dies which I use a lot in my single stage for hunting loads. and you can get a factory crimp die with your die sets for not much more than the other brands, and on some you get the extra die for less than the other brands. and the best tip i can give you and someone may disagree but I found putting my brass in a baggy and shooting them with "one shot" and then rolling them around and repeat two or three times is the fastest way to lube

mtncreek is right you have to get a single. too many variables with the progressives. I have two progressives and a lee classic, and I still mainly just use my classic. for your really precision stuff a single is actually easier if your only making small hunting quantities anyway

 

[cfullgraf]

Small Base Rifle Dies

There is a lot of disagreement on whether and when small base dies are needed for rifle cartridges. In my opinion, much of the disagreement is based on the experience of the shooter. None of the opinions are necessarily wrong, just based on different experiences.

For example, cases fired in one of my ARs with a 5.56 NATO chamber and full length sized in one standard full length size die I have will chamber in the 5.56 NATO chamber but will not chamber in my Service Rifle Match AR or an acquaintance's Service Rifle Match AR. But, I have another standard full length size die and the cases will chamber in my match rifle. Machining tolerances is probably the reason for the difference in function of the two full length size dies.

I used to claim that ammo for the match rifle must be resized with small base dies. I did some experimenting with my rifles and dies and I have changed that opinion knowing that there are other factors that come into play.

As previously said, if you obtain lots of once fired brass from unknown sources, a small base die might be in order to avoid potential problems.

I also load 30-06 for the M1 Garand and standard full length size dies have worked fine when loading for several Garands even with once fired brass. But, I know that I have never had once fired machine gun brass to reload.

The main downside to small base dies is they work the brass a little more than standard dies. But this is also a debatable point.

Finally, I do not crimp for any of my semi-auto rifles, the M1 or ARs chambered in 17 Remington, 204 Ruger and 223 Remington.

 

[Sam1911]

ARs chambered in 17 Remington

You have an AR in .17 Rem? Suh-WEET! That must be a joy to shoot.

 

[captain awesome]

I reload for 2 of those cartridges, 50ae, and 500 s&w. I started with lee dies for the 500, and was disappointed with the accuracy. I spent a lot of time thinking it was me. finally I bought a Hornady set for 50ae, and since I never liked the lee expander die on the 500, I bought a Lyman M die. What a difference! My groups shrank dramatically. Here is what I do now;

I have not found a difference sizing cases from one brand to another, so I use the lee die for that still with my 500, and the Hornady for 50ae(they have different exterior case diameters)

For expanding I use the Lyman M die for both (Same bullet diameter)

For bullet seating I used the Hornady seating die for both. I really like the floating sleeve, it works very well.

I would like to use a separate crimping die for each but haven't figured out which brand would be best for that yet. I got inconsistent OAL's (not more than .002 variation) with 44 mag using the Redding competition seating die and the lee factory crimp die, so I don't know which was to blame, or if it was me. Need to do more testing with those.

One particular seating die I DON'T like for round nose bullets (especially lead) is the regular Redding seating die. left a ring indentation on the nose of all the bullets for my 45 colt. Didn't notice it for the 357 semi wad cutters.

I had an old rcbs set for 357 mag/38 special, and didn't like the accuracy of those either. It seems they have changed their expander dies since then and more resemble the Lyman M die and the Redding expander. I cant say for sure, but a lot of my luck seems to be based around which expander die I use.

 

[ranger335v]

Snuffy has your proper answers by the numbers..

Dies are dies, all that matters is the internals and, leaving aside personal likes, there is no average advantage to any of them. Different dies of the same brand will vary as much as between brands. It's hard to even find a set of handgun dies today that don't have a carbide sizer so buy a set of conventional dies that are labeled for your cartridges and use them. If you have problems it won't be because of the die brand being wrong.

Small base rifle dies are about 2 thou smaller at the head than standard dies; that's less than the thickness of a sheet of paper. SB dies are made to solve an occasional problem in an occasional autoloader but most chambers are plenty large enough to not have a problem. If you don't have a problem, you don't need a solution.

 

[k4swb]

1. Preferred brand? (pros/cons)

I like Lee dies. Having said that, I found them to be slightly too short, especially the decap/resize die to work in my LNL AP UNLESS you change lock rings and even then you may need to grind the rings thinner.

 

[highlander 5]

All my pistol/revolver dies are either tungsten or titanium carbide. Rifle I use atandard dies and I load for 223,308,7.62 x 39 and 300 aac. Dies are either RCBS,Redding or Dillon. I've tried Hornandy,Lee and Lyman and for one reason or another I've not had good results with them. I don't lube any straight walled pistol/relover cases that's what carbide is for. There are carbide rifle dies in a few rifle calibers but you still need to lube the cases so why bother?

 

[Walkalong]

Having said that, I found them to be slightly too short, especially the decap/resize die to work in my LNL AP UNLESS you change lock rings

I have had the same thing happen, and not just with Lee dies. So far I have been able to make all of them work.

 

[oneounceload]

For quality, I prefer Redding, Forster and RCBS

 

[rbernie]

I'm 100% in Sam1911's camp.

 

[budiceman]

Lee are good dies ButI think they suck using them in a L-N-L. Work great in my single stage RCBS but are on the short side for the LNL. If you buy the Hornady you can get a 100 free bullets but you pay postage. Got mine in 10 days. I also like RCBS too.

 

[NCsmitty]

I've had many different brands of dies over the many years, and find that for standard applications, the Lee dies are well made and and innovative and do a very good job making accurate ammo.



NCsmitty

 

[ajeaton]

Thanks for all of the advice guys, I appreciate it all.

 

[GLOOB]

Lee deluxe set comes with an FCD. This can come in handy for .40 and to a lesser extent for .45, in case you come across any bulged cases. Using a push-through adapter, you can fully resize these cases.

 

[NuJudge]

Dillon seaters for cast bullet pistol

If you are loading cast bullet pistol ammo, you will have bullet lube build-up. The only type of die that allows disassembly for cleaning without loss of adjustment is Dillon.

For semi-autos, small base dies are usually not necessary, but occasionally are. I never needed them in .30-'06 until I ran into HXP surplus brass. I only needed them in .223 once. Every time I've used .308 brass fired in National Guard machineguns, I've needed a small base sizer.

 

[Sam1911]

If you are loading cast bullet pistol ammo, you will have bullet lube build-up. The only type of die that allows disassembly for cleaning without loss of adjustment is Dillon.

This is much more of an issue with tumble-lubed bullets than commercial (or homemade) hard lubed bullets.

I shoot something around ten thousand commercial cast bullets (mostly from our member Brad at MBC these days) every year and I can't remember ever having pulled apart my seating dies to clean bullet lube out. (Though years ago I did have that problem using Alox on tumble-lube home cast .45s.)

 

[rbernie]

I have had to pull the Lee seater stem out a few times to clean off built-up lube, but I always have a loaded round available to use as a reference - just run the seater back in until it contacts the loaded round's bullet.

Easy peasy.