Pictures of my mag problem

[wbwanzer]

Earlier this week I posted a review of my Witness Elite Match. I'm loving this gun but did have a problem with one of the two magazines. One of them would lock the slide back before the last bullet had been fired. The other mag worked as expected.

I took them apart today and the main difference that I see is the red part. Is that the follower? Since it follows the bullets? The 'good' one is larger on that corner that would make contact with the slide stop. The one that is a problem is noticeably smaller on that corner.

Here is a picture of the two magazines. The one on the left is the problem. One on right works perfectly.


Another pic of just the plastic part. Top is good, bottom is the problem.


So am i on the right track that the plastic part is the problem? If so, what is the solution? Just buy another mag over the internet and hope for the best?

Thanks for any help.

 

[10X]

There is definitely a difference between the two followers.
You might call the manufacturer, send them pictures and ask for a replacement follower.

 

[MT GUNNY]

The first thing i would do is put the good follower in the bad mag and see if it works . if it don't, put the good follower back where it goes and scrap the bad mag. I see 3 differences in the Mag Housings alone just by your pics.

 

[jfh]

is there a sticky somewhere--any site--about mag tuning?

The first thing I noted in the pictures was what appears to be misadjusted feed lips. In that first picture, the shadow / shading seems to show that, and the fact that the follower is sitting 'cocked' reinforces that impression. Then, there also appears to be some damage near the notch for the slide release / lockback. We can't really tell without more photographs.

Rather than just ordering in another mag and hope for the best, why not try some basic troubleshooting, and some research about mag tuneups? It looks to me like an ideal opportunity to learn some new skills...

Get out your calipers (or buy some) and start measuring the two mags. Note where the bad mag differs from the good one. Think about the way a magazine works, and what takes place when 1) a magazine is inserted, 2) how the follower works, 3) what role the feed lips play, and 4) what happens when the last round is fired and the follower pops up.

Do you want to fish, or do you want to just be sold some?

FWIW--you're on the right track for expanding your skills, and MT GUNNY offers a bit to help.

Jim H.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The follower is the problem. The lock-open feature works when the magazine follower contacts the slide lock during recoil after the last shot is fired. Your magazine follower is clearly faulty.

I second the advice to contact the manufacturer and get a replacement.

 

[wbwanzer]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm willing to learn. I'm not new to shooting but have never had a mag problem before. So consequestly I never had to learn anything about them.

Now as I'm noodleing this through my head, I'm thinking that since the last bullet is still in the mag when the slide locks back, the follower is not in contact with the slide release yet. So are you guys suggesting that the last bullet is not all the way up at the top and that is somehow causing the slide to lock back?

I don't really know how the follower affects the release. I don't know about feed lips either. But the bullets preceeding the last bullet all fed correctly.

I don't mind fishing.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I'm thinking that since the last bullet is still in the mag when the slide locks back, the follower is not in contact with the slide release yet. So are you guys suggesting that the last bullet is not all the way up at the top and that is somehow causing the slide to lock back?

That's a pretty fair analysis of what's happening. If you look inside the pistol (probably easier with the slide off) you can see the slide lock protrudes through the wall of the frame. There is a stud on the slide lock that is pushed up by the follower to lock the slide back on the last shot.

Your magazines are apparently allowing the last round to get too close to that stud, and contacting it on the next-to-last shot.

 

[wbwanzer]

Thanks Vern. I'll take a look at it tomorrow. I'm getting ready to go out right now. Maybe it's something I can tune up (bend) on the magazine?

 

[jfh]

As I look at the follower pictures again, I am guessing that one is a newer version than the other--although it could just be a changeover to a newer (cheaper) subcontractor. So, you might want to order some 'new' followers.

Vern's probably on the right track. If you have some dummy rounds (live rounds will work, but are more dangerous, obviously; KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER AND OUT OF THE GUARD), you can try numerous manual slide retracts and feeds while watching carefully. Start with Vern's approach with the slide off, to observe how the slide lock interacts with the follower. Then, try the repeated manual feeds to see what's happening as the 2nd-to-last and last rounds come up to feed.

Try this with both magazines, and see how the cartridge rests under / at the lips, with both a full magazine and with it down to three-two-one cartridge. Observe how the follower 'moves up,' and if it changes angles because of follower or mag tube dimensional differences, that sort of thing.

Jim H.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Maybe it's something I can tune up (bend) on the magazine?

The offending part is the follower, and that's made of plastic.

 

[1SOW]

MT Gunny +1 =1st step, easy to do.

 

[chris in va]

My CZ had the same issue. The mag followers were different.

 

[wbwanzer]

I am the OP. I took another look at the situation today and here is what I have done. I removed the slide so I could see how the follower hits the slide stop. I had never done that before. As I said before, I had never had magazine problems, so I left well enough alone.

I then took the two magazines apart. In the absence of owning calipers, I took one of my wifes lipsticks and just dabbed the tip of the feed lips. Then I made a mark on paper with the lips from both mags. The problem mag had a wider opening between the lips. So I gently bent the lips until they were the same distance apart as on the 'good' mag.

I will not be able to test until possibly Monday or Tuesday. I'll see what that fix does. If still a problem I'll do as MT Gunny suggested and put the good follower in the other mag and see what happens.

 

[jfh]

I think that your first step (checking the follower action) and the second step (adjusting the feed lips on the 'bad' mag) were good steps. If, as you describe, you could "gently" ben(d) the feed lips, then you may have faulty tempered metal in the mag--IOW, a faulty body. When you test it, check to see if lip adjustment changes. If they don't hold, they're no good.

Are both of these mags EAA-supplied? Are both of them Tanfoglio?--i.e., is the body stamped with a 'T' inside a triangle that has rounded corners? Are they both stamped "10mm?" If not, you may have an aftermarket one of dubious quality.

I just got my mags out. These were purchased from EAA about twenty-seven months ago, online, and with the pistol twenty-one months ago at the LGS. The mag body stamping is like your good one, and the followers are like your bad one. These mags have functioned perfectly for me (see my range report elsewhere), The metal is tempered enough--and thick enough--that there's no way I could 'gently' bend the lips....

You could now check your spring tension--try pushing down on the follower on each mag, and see if the effort feels 'different.' I may have upgraded the mag springs in mine--I honestly don't remember. (When I buy a pistol, I usually get recoil spring sets and mag springs to tweak / have on hand for repairs as needed.)

Jim H.

 

[wbwanzer]

Jim, thanks for all your help.

I'm looking at the mags and do not see a 'T' stamped anywhere, but the bottom of the plastic baseplate says 'Tanfoglio Italy'. So I don't know if they are EAA supplied or not. I am the second owner of the gun. My gun is 9mm as are the mags.

I need to clarify what I meant when I said that I 'gently' bent the lips. I had to use some force but I didn't go crazy. My fear was that I might over do it. So I think the metal is OK. I just tried to bend as little as possible to make the opening the same as the good one. I did not want to wind up with the lips closer than they should be.

Hopefully I can get to the range on Tuesday to give it a try.

 

[LancerMW]

i had multiple witness mags that gave me problems EAA wouldnt replace them.

 

[jfh]

Well, if they have the Tanfoglio baseplate, they were at least supplied by the pistol manufacturer. I think. (I have gotten awfully cynical about the great "subcontractors" game for suppliers and manufacturers.)

Before you get to the range, you can 'play' some more watch the feed from the mag and watching the stop engagement so you really have it drilled in and understand it well--but other than that, it sounds like it's time to do a function test.

Jim H.