plated vs coated lead bullets?

[rsrocket1]

I'm trying to cut cost anywhere i can and seen Missouri bullet company offers coated lead and I'm pretty sure Mr. Walkalong has recommended them to me several times. .

My main concern is damage to the firearm/leading, accuracy and ease of use.

If you want to cut cost anywhere you can, learn how to cast bullets and powder coat them yourself.
With lead fairly easily obtainable at $1/pound, a 120g 9mm bullet costs 1.7 cents and a 240g .44 bullet will cost 3.4 cents so the total cost per shot regardless of handgun caliber will be almost the same within a couple of pennies.

Once you get a melter which can be as simple as a cast iron pot on a thrift store Coleman gas stove or a "fancy" Lee 4-20 bottom pour pot @ $70, a $40 6-cavity mold will pay for itself in savings over commercial cast bullets with the first 500-1000 rounds.

A $5 thrift store toaster oven is typically the only "equipment" you need to buy to start powder coating. A teaspoon of $5/pound bottle of harbor Freight red powder will coat about 100 bullets. 20 minutes at about 400F and they're done.

I size my 45ACP bullets to 0.451 with the Lee push through sizer and load them up WITH the 45ACP FCD in the final stage of my LnL AP.
I used to be fearful of swaging down lead bullets with the FCD so I replaced them with the Lee taper crimp die. Recently, I've been doing tests by shooting PC bullets that were run through the FCD. The soot between the lands was just that, soot. Here are some pics after 400 PC bullets loaded using the FCD through my M&P 40 barrel followed by a single pass with a wadded up piece of paper towel.

After this I do use a patch dampened with CLP or Hoppes No9 but there is no leading at all, just soot.

 

[Axis II]

If you want to cut cost anywhere you can, learn how to cast bullets and powder coat them yourself.
With lead fairly easily obtainable at $1/pound, a 120g 9mm bullet costs 1.7 cents and a 240g .44 bullet will cost 3.4 cents so the total cost per shot regardless of handgun caliber will be almost the same within a couple of pennies.

Once you get a melter which can be as simple as a cast iron pot on a thrift store Coleman gas stove or a "fancy" Lee 4-20 bottom pour pot @ $70, a $40 6-cavity mold will pay for itself in savings over commercial cast bullets with the first 500-1000 rounds.

A $5 thrift store toaster oven is typically the only "equipment" you need to buy to start powder coating. A teaspoon of $5/pound bottle of harbor Freight red powder will coat about 100 bullets. 20 minutes at about 400F and they're done.

I size my 45ACP bullets to 0.451 with the Lee push through sizer and load them up WITH the 45ACP FCD in the final stage of my LnL AP.
I used to be fearful of swaging down lead bullets with the FCD so I replaced them with the Lee taper crimp die. Recently, I've been doing tests by shooting PC bullets that were run through the FCD. The soot between the lands was just that, soot. Here are some pics after 400 PC bullets loaded using the FCD through my M&P 40 barrel followed by a single pass with a wadded up piece of paper towel.

After this I do use a patch dampened with CLP or Hoppes No9 but there is no leading at all, just soot.

i would love to cast but i rent so space is very limited and so is time.

 

[Axis II]

Okay guys got another one for ya. Im getting the hang of this instead of starting another thread i spent 20min finding this one. lol.

I was looking at MBC 38spl and 44mag coated bullets and they are .430 and .357. Shouldn't they be larger due to being lead?

 

[LiveLife]

Lubed lead bullets rely on larger than groove diameter sizing (bullet-to-barrel fit), deformation of base (alloy mix/BHN/obturation) along with squeezing of lube channel to form O-ring seal with the barrel to produce consistent chamber pressure build and reduce/prevent leading.

Coated lead bullets use coating as lubricant and since leading is not an issue, larger than groove diameter sizing is not necessary. I think coating of lead bullets is the best thing since sliced bread for lead bullets to prevent leading (especially when using softer lead alloy) and keep AR gas system clean like for subsonic .300 BLK.

However, if powder charge is not sufficient and lead alloy is not soft enough to deform the bullet base, chamber pressure build may not be consistent to produce accuracy, especially with smaller than groove diameter sized bullets.

 

[Axis II]

Lubed lead bullets rely on larger than groove diameter sizing (bullet-to-barrel fit), deformation of base (alloy mix/BHN/obturation) along with squeezing of lube channel to form O-ring seal with the barrel to produce consistent chamber pressure build and reduce/prevent leading.

Coated lead bullets use coating as lubricant and since leading is not an issue, larger than groove diameter sizing is not necessary. I think coating of lead bullets is the best thing since sliced bread for lead bullets to prevent leading (especially when using softer lead alloy) and keep AR gas system clean like for subsonic .300 BLK.

However, if powder charge is not sufficient and lead alloy is not soft enough to deform the bullet base, chamber pressure build may not be consistent to produce accuracy, especially with smaller than groove diameter sized bullets.[/QUOTE]

would the MBC 18 brinnel be sufficient?

I'm interested in the 240gr 44mag SWC and the 38spl SCW or RN.[/QUOTE]

 

[Blue68f100]

18 BH is too hard for the low pressure 38spl. I would recommend the lower 12 BH. I use the 12 bh for my 357 Mag loads, non-magnum.

 

[Dudedog]

In my .45 it was a close call between the MBC BHN 12 bullets and the BHN 18 ones for full power loads. To close for me to call so I went with the 12s for .45 as they worked better in lighter loads.
For light to medium loads the softer BHN 12 ones shot better.
Sort of the same thing in .357. The softer (BHN 12) ones worked better for me until I got up to the higher end of the charge range or H110 type vels.
On MBCs site the ,38 Special ones are usually BHN 12 while most of the ,.357 ones are BHN 18. Light medium .357 use the ".38 Special" bullets.
Of course all guns are different and the only way to tell which your gun prefers would be to try both.

Amce bullets are BHN 16 sort of a nice compromise. (They also come in cool wood boxes)
Out of all the coated ones I have used ACME seems to have the thickest/most uniform coating.

A harder bullet is needed for higher vels/pressures but a harder bullet is not a cure all for leading issues.

 

[hdwhit]

ohihunter wrote:
Anything i need to know about when loading lead coated bullets?

The coating is a polymer. As such, it is softer than the copper used in plated bullets. To avoid problems with shaving off the coating, make sure you have adequately expanded the case mouth.

More than one manufacturer - but not all - recommends seating the bullet and crimping in a separate operation (so that you're not still pushing the bullet down while you force the case mouth into the coating), but if you're using a Lee FCD, you'll already be doing that.

Otherwise treat coated bullets like plated bullets and you should have no problems.

 

[Axis II]

The coating is a polymer. As such, it is softer than the copper used in plated bullets. To avoid problems with shaving off the coating, make sure you have adequately expanded the case mouth.

More than one manufacturer - but not all - recommends seating the bullet and crimping in a separate operation (so that you're not still pushing the bullet down while you force the case mouth into the coating), but if you're using a Lee FCD, you'll already be doing that.

Otherwise treat coated bullets like plated bullets and you should have no problems.

can i use a lee taper crimp for 38spl and lead coated?

 

[Walkalong]

Yes, but if you crimp a lot do it in a second step. A light taper crimp can be done in the same step.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-crimp-in-two-stages.623417/#post-7699828

 

[Axis II]

Thanks walkalong.

I got another one for you guys. I understand from several posts before this i need a lighter hardness for 38spl but when comparing acme and MBC 44ma SWC the MBC is harder. Being a rifle should i go with the MBC SWC because its harder?

 

[Jack B.]

Only ever shoot jacketed, plated or gas checked lead in pistols. Jacketed only in rifles.

 

[Walkalong]

Being a rifle should i go with the MBC SWC because its harder?

Rifle has nothing to do with it. The only thing a longer barrel needs is more lube on a cast bullet. hardness is matched to velocity & pressure, mostly pressure.

 

[Axis II]

Rifle has nothing to do with it. The only thing a longer barrel needs is more lube on a cast bullet. hardness is matched to velocity & pressure, mostly pressure.

Gotcha, so being a longer barrel and adding more velocity the harder of the two bullets would be the ticket? I will be using coated so i would think the lube part wouldn't matter?

 

[Walkalong]

Gotcha, so being a longer barrel and adding more velocity the harder of the two bullets would be the ticket?

No, sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

[Axis II]

No, sorry if I wasn't clear.

sorry i misunderstood your post. I have a slight LD.

 

[someguy2800]

I'm not a super high volume pistol shooter. About 1500 rounds each of 9mm and 38 special and a few hundred 357 mag a year. I've settled on berrys plated for the 38 and 9mm. I've never tried powder coated cast but I don't really see the cost savings at my shooting volume. I get the berrys on sale with free shipping which makes them pretty much the same cost as MBC. I can see the cost savings if casting your own, but if buying them it might save me $20 a year? Doesn't really seam that apealing to mess with.

 

[Axis II]

I'm not a super high volume pistol shooter. About 1500 rounds each of 9mm and 38 special and a few hundred 357 mag a year. I've settled on berrys plated for the 38 and 9mm. I've never tried powder coated cast but I don't really see the cost savings at my shooting volume. I get the berrys on sale with free shipping which makes them pretty much the same cost as MBC. I can see the cost savings if casting your own, but if buying them it might save me $20 a year? Doesn't really seam that apealing to mess with.

do you mind PM me where your getting them on sale with free shipping? I compiled a list yesterday of all the bullet makers with prices including shipping and acme beat cabelas on berry's by about $11-500

 

[someguy2800]

I get them on sale at either cabelas or midway usa for around $75-$80 per 1000. I shoot the 124 grain target HP in 9 and 125 flat point in 38 special. Midway often has free shipping with $99 so 1000 pistol bullets and a box or two of rifle bullets gets there. I'm a cabelas club member so I get free shipping and $20 off $100 purchase offers a few times a year which pays for the taxes.

 

[Toprudder]

do you mind PM me where your getting them on sale with free shipping? I compiled a list yesterday of all the bullet makers with prices including shipping and acme beat cabelas on berry's by about $11-500

RMR always has free shipping, and a 5% THR member discount.

Xtreme occasionally has sales (Black Friday is usually a big one) and sometimes includes free shipping.

 

[ray15]

do you mind PM me where your getting them on sale with free shipping? I compiled a list yesterday of all the bullet makers with prices including shipping and acme beat cabelas on berry's by about $11-500

The key is leveraging Cabela's sales and promos. They put the reloading components like Berry's bullets 20% off several times a year. If you can combine those sale prices with their reoccurring 20 off 100 or 20 off 200 and free shipping promos you can get them cheap. My best deal was 6.2 cents/per for the 9mm 115gr. RN (the cheapest one). You can just barely beat that via Acme via the best purchasing strategy I know of, resulting 5.83 cents/per for 115RN and that requires purchasing in larger quantities.

I'm concerned that Bass Pro's purchase of Cabelas will put an end to this type of largess.