Nathaniel Firethorn
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- pd
Police Marksmanship & Other Silliness
- Thread starter XLMiguel
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Children with a Glock. Harry Tuttle
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- Nov 14, 2003
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i'm seeing a Tshirt design brewing...
I disagree - using that much gun is asking for trouble - if not a ricochet, then at the very least splattering blood and flesh all over the shooter and bystanders. If the shot in the head didn't kill it, then this is *definitely* an issue of a lack of understanding anatomy and shot placement. Deer are tough, but 1 round of 9mm properly placed is absolutely all that is needed to humanely dispatch the animal, by a wide margin.
Joejojoba111
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- Mar 7, 2005
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Thanks, that's a great tip to know, animals shouldn't have to suffer because of stupid humans.
308win
Member
Should have brained it with the coffee can recently confiscated on a previous stop & hassle. 
Omni04
Member
that has to be the funniest thing i have heard all year!!!
somebody mentioned a wounded animal has a lot of muscle and is willing to use it (in reference to using a knife). Then maybe the officers shouldn't of used the walmart bag
XLMiguel
Member
FWIW, I didn't post this as an invitation to a 'cop bashing' threead, and am grateful that it hasn't degenerated into same. Mostly, just another sad example of how out of touch with reality interurban PD's have gotten with life's realities. There is no shortage of wildlife, particularly deer, inside the Beltway. We have coyotes. too, though they haven't been too problematic (yet).
If a back-of-the-head shot didn't do it, a twixt the eyes most certainly would have sufficed (BTDT). I live near where the deer jumped. There's little doubt in my mind that it was a busted-up, hurtin' critter. There's also little reason why a full grown man of reaosnable size couldn't have slit its throat safely, if they couldn't shoot it again properly. Might have been a bit messy, though.
Just a sad situation with too much bureaucracy and too little common sense.
If a back-of-the-head shot didn't do it, a twixt the eyes most certainly would have sufficed (BTDT). I live near where the deer jumped. There's little doubt in my mind that it was a busted-up, hurtin' critter. There's also little reason why a full grown man of reaosnable size couldn't have slit its throat safely, if they couldn't shoot it again properly. Might have been a bit messy, though.
Just a sad situation with too much bureaucracy and too little common sense.
No_Brakes23
Member
You need to get the brainstem to ensure a quick kill. The back of the head just above the spine entry at the base of the skull is a better shot than trying from the front.
If done at contact range even a blank would do the job if you get the brainstem.
If done at contact range even a blank would do the job if you get the brainstem.
stevelyn
Member
Yes. Approach the animal from behind if possible and aim for the back of the skull where the spine connects the cerebral cortex. A shot to this area shuts them off like a light. Using the shotgun with 00Buck simplifies the process minimizes error.
A similar story for you. Once in recent history I had to work with an "officer" (a title I'll use loosely) who'd on several past occassions had demonstrated less than good judgement. He was dispatched to an animal complaint where a cat was possibly injured. To compound the situation he had a rookie along with him and was using the situation to foof up his own image.
Well, upon arrival at the scene our "hero" decides the cat is beyond help and states to the rook in a most serious voice and furrowed brow "the cat must go down". He then proceeds to unlimber his department issue Glock from its holster and fires a shot at the cat basically lying on the ground at his feet.........................................................and misses and shoots again......and misses. Meanwhile all this is taking place in a residential area with folks standing around watching. He was getting ready to crank off another round when the rook stepped in and suggested that they place the cat in a box or kennel and transport it to a more suitable location to administer the ah......yoot in asia.
So the cat gets scooped up and placed in a box and tranported to the suitable location. Our "hero" then attempts another Glocking at which time the cat jumps out of its box and starts running away. So rather than attempting to return the cat to its owner he whips out his shotgun and shoots at the cat twice before hitting it.
Thankfully he dosen't work for our agency any longer. Unfortunately, he's now someone else's problem.
Steve in PA
Member
Obviously the officer in this case had no idea what he/she was doing. I myself have had to put down plenty of deer (and a few other animals) so have several other officers in my dept. All animals were put down quickly and humanely with a handgun.
No_Brakes23
Member
I wonder if PD cover this in training.
Or if they will start doing it now.
I remember about 10-15 years ago in Orange County, CA the cops fired 40-60 rounds at a cow on the freeway. The animals do come into suburbia.
Or if they will start doing it now.
I remember about 10-15 years ago in Orange County, CA the cops fired 40-60 rounds at a cow on the freeway. The animals do come into suburbia.
Killing animals is something that I guess most men assume they can do like shooting a gun or having sex. When it comes time to try it for the first time, though, it is rather surprising that instinct doesn't take over and show them the way.
Proper training in all three of these important fields should be part of every human being's education.
Proper training in all three of these important fields should be part of every human being's education.
Remington788
Member
The guy is just a bad shot.
About 6 years ago a friend of mine hit a deer on the way home from his girlfriends house. He stops by to call the sheriffs department and then we both go back to the scene to wait for the deputy. Guy shows up and we look for the deer, finally finding it at the bottom of a hill. Cop pulls his S&W 4506 out and takes aim at about 25 yards and blam, one shot, deer is DRT. Needless to say, I was impressed.
About 6 years ago a friend of mine hit a deer on the way home from his girlfriends house. He stops by to call the sheriffs department and then we both go back to the scene to wait for the deputy. Guy shows up and we look for the deer, finally finding it at the bottom of a hill. Cop pulls his S&W 4506 out and takes aim at about 25 yards and blam, one shot, deer is DRT. Needless to say, I was impressed.
absolute0
Member
When my time comes, I want Bobby Hill to take the shot cuz I know he'll put me down clean....
Commissar Gribb
Member
no brakes:
shirt design needs more of a "bullseye" looking graphic on the forhead or a picture of a shotgun/rifle next to it
otherwise people are going to think the head represents animal psychology or something.
shirt design needs more of a "bullseye" looking graphic on the forhead or a picture of a shotgun/rifle next to it
otherwise people are going to think the head represents animal psychology or something.
I have personally witnessed a man who had been shot in the head (almost directly in the middle of the forehead with a pistol round) who survived at least 8-10 hours. I did not see the shooting but, I worked in the hospital as a square bade (for a while in college). I saw the x-rays and had to keep an eye on this poor soul.
This guy had been shot point blank in the head with what they thought was a .38 or .45 round. The bullet split in two, one piece traveled to around the brain stem the other wound up in about the center of his brain. I was guarding him while they waited for a surgeon to return from Europe - he was on a ski trip and was the only guy that would go into this guy's brain at that time. The man was cognizant of what had happened, what was going on, and knew enough to switch to English when I told him I did not understand Spanish when he begged for someone to stop the pain (yes he was in pain and was darned scared too). I do not remember what happened to him, probably died, but he was alive for at least the 8 to 10 hours that I was there. Shot placement and a bullet or bolt to the brain is not always effective -there have been quite a few documented cases of people surviving traumatic brain injuries of such a nature.
I am not making excuses for these cops. Another shot to the head was called for. Running it over was ridiculous, unless of course they had kept the tire on the neck - then it probably would have died swiftly from suffocation as when a lioness kills game - butthat would have required a knowledge of where to place the tire.
Of course, maybe that first shot ricocheted off of the skull if not shot at the correct angle. That may have made them seek another method; then again maybe they were just thick as bricks.
All the best,
Glenn B
This guy had been shot point blank in the head with what they thought was a .38 or .45 round. The bullet split in two, one piece traveled to around the brain stem the other wound up in about the center of his brain. I was guarding him while they waited for a surgeon to return from Europe - he was on a ski trip and was the only guy that would go into this guy's brain at that time. The man was cognizant of what had happened, what was going on, and knew enough to switch to English when I told him I did not understand Spanish when he begged for someone to stop the pain (yes he was in pain and was darned scared too). I do not remember what happened to him, probably died, but he was alive for at least the 8 to 10 hours that I was there. Shot placement and a bullet or bolt to the brain is not always effective -there have been quite a few documented cases of people surviving traumatic brain injuries of such a nature.
I am not making excuses for these cops. Another shot to the head was called for. Running it over was ridiculous, unless of course they had kept the tire on the neck - then it probably would have died swiftly from suffocation as when a lioness kills game - butthat would have required a knowledge of where to place the tire.
Of course, maybe that first shot ricocheted off of the skull if not shot at the correct angle. That may have made them seek another method; then again maybe they were just thick as bricks.
All the best,
Glenn B
Seminole
Member
Am I the only one reminded by this story of the scene with Jim Carrey and the cow in "Me, Myself, and Irene"? 
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
Didn't know Bambi had 9 lives.
If TPTB are going to expect police officers to put down injured animals in the field, they should train them to do it. If no training is offered it is bogus to discipline an officer for 'not doing it right.' It is not an easy thing to do, and I doubt 100% of the folks called on to put down an animal, even if trained, could do it cleanly for being too soft hearted. Not being critical, not cop bashing, just have had the experience of listening to Special Forces soldiers about to undergo the SERE (survival, evasion, resistance, escape) course where they would have to kill, cook and eat a live chicken or rabbit cringe at the thought of having to kill something they were going to eat. It really is a kinder, gentler world... or not. Deciding to transition from gun to car to plastic bag is sort of... odd, though.
lpl/nc (never phased my mom when it was time to cook chicken, they didn't come from the SooperMart wrapped in plastic when/where I was growing up)
==========================
http://www.camo-store.com/whitetail_deer_shot_placement.htm
http://www.remington.com/NR/exeres/0000165arvgamkanfvoopcta/News+Article.asp?NRMODE=Published&NRORIGINALURL=%2Fmagazine%2Fpreview%2F2003_0512_where2hit.htm&NRNODEGUID={F50411B1-5287-41C8-8E1D-C22C6BA2542E}&NRQUERYTERMINATOR=1&cookie_test=1
If TPTB are going to expect police officers to put down injured animals in the field, they should train them to do it. If no training is offered it is bogus to discipline an officer for 'not doing it right.' It is not an easy thing to do, and I doubt 100% of the folks called on to put down an animal, even if trained, could do it cleanly for being too soft hearted. Not being critical, not cop bashing, just have had the experience of listening to Special Forces soldiers about to undergo the SERE (survival, evasion, resistance, escape) course where they would have to kill, cook and eat a live chicken or rabbit cringe at the thought of having to kill something they were going to eat. It really is a kinder, gentler world... or not. Deciding to transition from gun to car to plastic bag is sort of... odd, though.
lpl/nc (never phased my mom when it was time to cook chicken, they didn't come from the SooperMart wrapped in plastic when/where I was growing up)
==========================
http://www.camo-store.com/whitetail_deer_shot_placement.htm
http://www.remington.com/NR/exeres/0000165arvgamkanfvoopcta/News+Article.asp?NRMODE=Published&NRORIGINALURL=%2Fmagazine%2Fpreview%2F2003_0512_where2hit.htm&NRNODEGUID={F50411B1-5287-41C8-8E1D-C22C6BA2542E}&NRQUERYTERMINATOR=1&cookie_test=1
CajunBass
Member
Back when I used to deer hunt, I used a shotgun and buckshot. I don't recall a deer ever being dead when I walked up to them. They were going to be dead soon, but they weren't right then. I always kept a couple of birdshot shells in my vest pocket for a "Kill shot". A load of number 8's behind the ear always put the lights out. I suspect a 9mm or a 38 or any other pistol would do the same. (I never had to worry about damaging a rack when I did this, but if I had ever had that problem, I figure the load of 8's just behind the shoulder would have done the trick too.)
I've never slit a deers throat under those conditions, but I've seen it done. Call me squeemish, but I always felt the load of 8's was a better methoid.
I've never slit a deers throat under those conditions, but I've seen it done. Call me squeemish, but I always felt the load of 8's was a better methoid.
OK, so they wanted to end the deer's suffering? Are they sure? Seems like common sense would have told them another shot was in order.
Similar story, sort of. I had an...acquaintance, that was a bail bondsman. He went out to grab a guy he was looking for, found him in this fast food joint. Approached him in the parking lot and the guy pulled a handgun and shot him in the head with a .45ACP. The bullet traveled around his skull and lodged behind his ear. He still wrestled the guy to the ground and took him into custody.
Moral of the story: Sometimes shot placement and caliber just don't matter at all. Sometimes it's just plain luck.
Cal
Similar story, sort of. I had an...acquaintance, that was a bail bondsman. He went out to grab a guy he was looking for, found him in this fast food joint. Approached him in the parking lot and the guy pulled a handgun and shot him in the head with a .45ACP. The bullet traveled around his skull and lodged behind his ear. He still wrestled the guy to the ground and took him into custody.
Moral of the story: Sometimes shot placement and caliber just don't matter at all. Sometimes it's just plain luck.
Cal
straightShot
Member
When I first read this, I thought that it must be some sort of urban legend. Then, I thought some more. Obviously, reality can far surpass fiction.
Driving over the animal? Suffocating it? Amazing.
Driving over the animal? Suffocating it? Amazing.
The more i think of this, the more I think that:
1) These police officers probably had absolutely no hunting experience.
2) They wanted to put the animal out of its misery quickly.
3) They likely panicked (or at least stopped using good reasoning powers) when the bullet did not kill the deer.
4) They tried another method in their panic, quite possibly under the direction of a superior officer.
5) They need some training in how to use their little gray cells while in such a situation.
6) They need the number for their local animal control officers.
7) Whomever gave them authority (even if they decided this themselves) to fire one and only one shot at this deer definitely needs to be retrained regarding the fact that multiple shots may be required in any situation where a firearm needs to be fired.
8) I have to wonder if they were all animal rights activists.
1) These police officers probably had absolutely no hunting experience.
2) They wanted to put the animal out of its misery quickly.
3) They likely panicked (or at least stopped using good reasoning powers) when the bullet did not kill the deer.
4) They tried another method in their panic, quite possibly under the direction of a superior officer.
5) They need some training in how to use their little gray cells while in such a situation.
6) They need the number for their local animal control officers.
7) Whomever gave them authority (even if they decided this themselves) to fire one and only one shot at this deer definitely needs to be retrained regarding the fact that multiple shots may be required in any situation where a firearm needs to be fired.
8) I have to wonder if they were all animal rights activists.
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