Polish Tokarev

[Nightcrawler]

For some reason, I've got a hankering for a Polish Tokarev. Think they're pretty cool, for some odd reason.

Anywho, I've heard the whole debate over strength issues, with Toks blowing up with Czech subgun ammo and CZ-52s having barrel-splits. I'm not really interested in having a big hooplah debate.

I just want to know for sure. Commercial 7.62x25mm ammo, made by Sellier & Bellot, will not harm a Tokarev, correct? Because if I get the Tok, this will likely be my primary source of ammunition (just like I use lots of it in my .45s).

Does Fiocci make 7.62mm Tok? Because their .45ACP is good stuff, too.

 

[Bren]

The Polish is the best made (fit and finish) Tok.

That said, these pistols are a little too delicate for the round itself. If you go to Gunparts you will find sales on broken Toks also if you need parts. Bren

 

[Mike Irwin]

IT WILL EXPLODE WITHOUT AMMO IN IT!

RUN FROM IT!

RRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



OK, that said, as far as I know, the S&B is perfectly fine for use in Tokarevs.

 

[WonderNine]

From what I understand the barrel of the CZ's is alot weaker than the Tok's, but the action of the CZ's is stronger. However the CZ's barrel is such a weak link that it makes it one of the weakest guns out there as far as kabooms with hot ammo.

 

[David4516]

S&B is Okay for the Tok. My friend shoots S&B with his chinese tokarev.

Its too bad more guns aren't made in 7.62X25, it's a very interesting caliber. Sure those .30 cal bullets are small, but they sure go fast

 

[RON in PA]

My Polish Tok is beautifully machined and finished and I have shot a couple of hundred rounds of S&B though it. Get it and enjoy.

 

[BevrFevr]

That said, these pistols are a little too delicate for the round itself.

Well I guess my garden could always use some more fertilizer.

Here's a clue. Subgun ammo is meant fer.... well........ uh.......... SUBGUNS!

Toks are great little pistols. You are more likely to ruin it with corrosive ammo. You will find alot more of that floating around. It will rust the crap out of it in about two days if it is humid out. My advice is to never buy surplus ammo for these jems and you will never have a problem.

The best thing about them is they are slender and powerful. The worst thing is the trigger. I wish I would have taken better care of my russian tok.

-bevr

 

[Nightcrawler]

Well, cool. S&B ammo isn't exactly pricey, and it's quality stuff, so I don't see the need to go with spotty surplus ammo that's probably been improperly stored for 30+ years, in addition to possibly being corrosive...

 

[BowStreetRunner]

how much is that S&B running per box nowadays?

 

[jsalcedo]

S&B is the best 7.62x25 going $9.95 per box

 

[Mike Irwin]

"However the CZ's barrel is such a weak link that it makes it one of the weakest guns out there as far as kabooms with hot ammo."

Beg pardon?

Is there anything loaded today that's hotter than the Czech military ammo for which the CZ-52 was DESIGNED?

Ammo with a muzzle velocity of roughly 1,600 fps?

Ammo that I witnessed killing a Soviet Tokarev?

 

[Keith]

Mike,

There's a very prolonged and ugly thread over on falfiles.com about this very subject. Some guy over there (with an engineering background) enjoys running various weapons to destruction and he's done a series on Toks and CZ 52's. The CZ's fail at pressures well below the Tok's - still above any pressure you'd normally find in military or commercial ammo.

It's an ugly thread because some of these CZer's are extremely passionate about their guns and won't accept anything this guy says even though he seems to have his ducks in a row with photo's and competent data, etc.

What he's found is that the barrels themselves fail, rather than the links, or lock-up or anything. The barrels (on the CZ's) tend to blow out around the chamber because they are so thin. The Tok's can go to considerably higher pressures before they fail.

Keith

 

[Nightcrawler]

That gentleman posts here as well, and there was a long, drawn out thread to this end not that long ago. He actually has a Tokarev converted to 9x23mm, telling me (if nothing else) that the Tokarev design isn't as fragile as some seem to say. It is, after all, based on the 1911.

On the same token, based on the experiences of others, I'd just as soon avoid the Czech subgun ammo, just in case it might damage my Polish Tok, when I get one.

However, I'd rather that whole ugly argument be repeated, if it's all the same to you guys, lest it get heated and the thread be locked.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"He actually has a Tokarev converted to 9x23mm, telling me (if nothing else) that the Tokarev design isn't as fragile as some seem to say. It is, after all, based on the 1911."

It's also based, if a Soviet gun, on the finest Stalinist slave labor and steel production.

Simply being a Browning design doesn't immediately confer upon it invincibility, infalability, and immutability.

To tell you the honest to God's truth, do I think the CZ barrel design would fail before the Tok? Given two guns of comparable states of manufacture, I'd not be surprised at all. I've never voiced any reservations about that fact.

What I have questioned, though, are continuing comments about the CZ being "unsafe" or "unsuitable" with "hot" ammo.

That's a pile of steamy ones, given that the CZ was designed specifically around the hottest 7.62x25 ammo available, ammo that I witnessed as the cause of destruction of a TT-30.

As for the 9x23, this conversion is one that I would NEVER attempt if I were dealing with a Soviet gun.

That said, however, I'd LOVE to know how the guy dealt with the feed lips...

 

[Gordon]

CLARK, the "blow up king" or Mr. ProofHouse also is one of the many that praise the TOK for brute strength. I have a Yugo Tok MILITARY NON IMPORT gun in 9x19 that has a one shot longer grip and seems brute ??? strong to me! I was thinking about having Bill Caldwell rework it to 9x23.

 

[Solinvictus70]

I have a Norinco Tokarev clone and have cycled the hot loaded Bulgarian ammo through it without incident. Now, I wouldn't do it again once I discovered the danger, but with the Bulgarian, Chinese,and Czech ammo I've never had a problem. My CZ 52 had a stovepipe once with the Chineses ammunition, but once I used the Czech made surplus, it fired fine. I would use modern S&B for safety. Remember, the 1950's surplus is both corrosive and made by forced labor. Some worker with a grudge could've hot loaded countless rounds.

 

[Erich]

I love Clark's posts over at Gunboards.com. I hate to think about the poor guns he blows up, though!

S&B is great in a Polska Tok. Natchez has the best pricing I've found, and terrific service.