Poodle shooter accessories (brain damage)

[stubbicatt]

Today I marvel at how much less stressful it is to purchase and install optics and accessories for my G3 clone than it was for a SIG556 Classic, which I have since sold off.

Aside from the diminutive cartridge of the 223/556, which I don't like as much as the 308, I have come to see the myriad of accessories and optics for the AR type platform as an aggravating puzzlement, as it was these types of accessories that would supposedly fit on the SIG.

By this I mean, on the G3 clone, the claw type scope mount works. Perfectly. It was designed for the rifle, just snaps in place, no mess, no fuss. The night vision works. Perfectly. It was designed for the rifle. The 22 caliber kit works. Perfectly. Again, it was designed for the rifle. These accessories are of high quality, and easy to use.

On the SIG and my buddy's AR, there seems to be so much twiddling and futzing about to get things to work perfectly. He has installed a railed fore end, a Eotech, and some sort of flashlight on his rifle. Lately it is some sort of magnifier which is in effect a scope without a reticle. He tried to install it behind the Eotech, which he then had to move a bit so that the magnifier would clear his pop up rear sight. It isn't working right, and it is making me crazy watching it make him crazy.

It seems to take an inordinate amount of effort to coordinate all these things to work together properly.

I realize my "use by" date is nearing expiration, and I like things simple. Just that there seems to be an inordinate amount of little shims and spacers and knobs and quick release levers from countless manufacturers, etc., for the little AR. Perhaps my memory is simply full, and can accept no more new data. I just can't watch him struggle with that thing anymore, nor could I bring myself to really enjoy that SIG due to a sort of dearth of high quality, known quantity, easy to install, accessories for the rifle.

I must say I really, truly, respect you younger guys who are willing to suffer through all that aggravation to arrive at your dream model of AR15. I must also say how much I appreciate all the engineering that went into these essentially military scopes, mounts, subcaliber adapters, etc., for the G3. It takes true genius to engineer simplicity and ease of use into a design.

 

[taliv]

that is like saying reloading makes you crazy because of the inordinate number of powders and bullets and primers and brass and the myriad ways to prep giving you a practically infinite combinations, most of which don't work, but i respect the guys who took the time to try all the combinations.

reality of course, is that is possible, but not what most people go through unless they just want to. because you can simply go to a respectable source, find a recipe and follow it, to achieve good results.

the same is true for ARs.

you don't need shims, twiddling or futzing. just don't buy cheap crappy parts. and exercise some common sense.


actually, it's fairly simple to design a single purpose system with a handful of proprietary accessories built by you.

it takes genius to develop a system that supports everything from CQB, to dominating precision and 3gun matches, to sniping, to light machine gun roles, AND is an open system so that literally thousands of different manufacturers can provide innovative components that all work together within reason.


look, if i went and bought a ford truck, and then came back and complained that the F250 platform was poorly designed because i can't use my aftermarket camper top and my aftermarket 5th wheel at the same time, people would rightfully think i was not reasonable

 

[Robert]

Suffer through what? I put a float tube, MagPul stocks and an ACOG on my rifle and it all works perfectly. In fact the rifle works better than I expected.

AR parts and add ons may not work on a Sig 556 because the Sig is not a true AR pattern rifle. In my limited experience they seem to be more of a mash up between an AK and an AR. But they are not true AR pattern rifles. And as such AR parts may or may not fit the Sig.

 

[TexAg]

I just bought my first AR (Sport) last summer and certainly can't complain. Easily moved the MOE stock from my 15-22 to the Sport, bought a Larue mount and TAC-30 scope which cleared the Magpul back up sight and installs and uninstalls easily. I also removed the stock handguard and installed a Magpul one without ever having done it before. Easily, by the way.
And then I was in my first "urban rifle match" this weekend and won with it in the detachable mag + optics class! I'm totally happy with it and everything has worked perfectly.
I did use THR and google to find as much info before I started though. Literally hours and hours of reading.
I hope you and your friend have better luck in the future.

 

[Fishbed77]

I don't get the OP's point.

Is he upset that the flat-top AR system is more flexible than most, and there are more accessories available for the AR platform than others? You can make it as simple or complex as you want.

I really can't see any downside to that.

 

[briansmithwins]

You with your fancy metallic cartridges and smokeless powders!

What ever happened to real men's rifles? Tearing open a paper cartridge, pouring the powder down the barrel, and ramming and capping... Now those were rifles! Sure, you could be a pansy and shoot conical-cylindrical bullets but real men, manly men, shoot round ball.

BSW

 

[Flatbush Harry]

I almost bought a nice replica 1861 Colt Navy .44 with all the black powder accoutrements today. Then I regained my senses...

FH

 

[stubbicatt]

Tsk tsk. You guys! I re-read my posting, and the point seems pretty clear. IN COMPARISON to the German .mil accessories which just simply work on the G3 clone, placing similar accessories on the AR has been more challenging.

Taliv - I handload and have for years. No issues there.

Robert - I have been watching my friend struggle with accessorizing his AR for quite some time now. The SIG556 was a monotonously reliable, and accurate enough, but LACK of suitable accessories for the rifle is what sent it down the river.

Fishbed - I don't find the flat top to be all that flexible. I understand that you do. From my way of seeing things, the HK accessories which are simply "plug and play" on the old PTR91 make it more flexible.

I'm glad all your experiences with the AR15 type rifle have been more rewarding than mine and my friend. Oddly enough, he likes the rifle enough that he is still working through his trials and tribulations, and keeping it. Of course, he started with a M4 type rifle, had the handguard and front sight/gas block replaced by a gunsmith with a rail type setup. That was a major pain. Moving Eotech around so that the magnifier will fit. The rear sight folds up and down... finding a place for all of that was much more challenging than anything I have faced with my clunky old G3.

 

[Fishbed77]

Fishbed - I don't find the flat top to be all that flexible. I understand that you do. From my way of seeing things, the HK accessories which are simply "plug and play" on the old PTR91 make it more flexible.

It's not really a matter of opinion. More a matter of fact. The AR flat-top rail (or a similar Picatinny rail system) IS more flexible than the G3/PTR91 system because it allows an near limitless amount of accessories and it allows them to be mounted in a way that best suits the end user.

Your friend found this out when he was able to mount an Eotech, magnifier, and rear sight and get them all to work. Yes, it may have took a few minutes to mount them, but how hard is it to turn a screw or flip a QD lever?


.

 

[Skylerbone]

I agree with the OP. I agonized for hours over which sling and swivel mounts to buy and in what color. In the end, I placed the order and like magic (and like the scope, RDS and magnifier) it worked. I did also futz on where to locate the forward mount for best support-hand position but it did eventually, 5 minutes later, work. Don't get me started on the QD bipod...what a pain with that lever that goes up!

 

[MrCleanOK]

Consider this. . .

The G3 was a German military rifle. Gun laws and culture in Germany being what they are, the G3 really didn't have the opportunity to take off and become the wildly popular consumer rifle that the AR-15 has. If there are accessories for the G3, it's probably because the Germany military had them developed to meet specific needs. Because of that, there are a limited number of accessories to chose from, and they all more or less work together.

If you go into a military arms room full of M4s or M16s, you're going to encounter something pretty similar. Chances are that they will be all M4's, or all M16A4's. They will all have the same iron sights. Some of them may have M203 or M320 grenade launchers, and leaf sights. Some of them may have M68 (Aimpoint) or ACOG optics. In the grand scheme of things, the options are pretty limited. And if the AR-15 was only a military rifle in the US, there probably wouldn't be many more accessories for them than what you found in that arms room.

But the AR-15 is the most prolific consumer rifle the world has ever seen. People love these things, and modularity is one of the rifle's biggest selling points. How much fun would Lego's be if there were only 12 different pieces? Or if Barbie only had two outfits? There are a gazillion different parts out there for AR-15's. It's up to the user to wade through the vast amount of information available to find out what works and what doesn't work. Trust me, if there is a part out there, somebody has tried it and wrote something about it on a blog or forum. It is possible to crack the code and build an AR that works. It just takes some research, and sometimes a little trial and error.

Something that seems silly, but kind of makes sense is to look at how professionals set up their rifles. If you want a fighting carbine, look for photos of top level instructors' and elite soldiers' rifles. If you want to build a race gun, look at what the winning 3-gun shooters are using. You may not be able to afford the best like they can, but their equipment will at least point you (or your friend) in the right direction.

 

[68wj]

If there is demand, someone will supply. The AR has been extremely popular for quite some time. All those purchasing the rifles have different needs, wants, uses, etc, and this demand has spawned a multitude of options. Industry standardized pieces such as the 1913 rails, and now the KeyMod slots on forearms, continue to make things easier while simultaneously complicating the market with a variety of choice.

Were the G3, or clones, more popular in the US there would likely be more choice and eventually more compatibility issues. However, simply because your friend is having problems does not mean that a problem exists beyond him. How is adding a rail section by use of a claw mount any less complicated on a G3 anyway? Considering the tired "poodle shooter" idea, also consider that the G3 was replaced with a similar rifle of poodle chambering too, and an AR can very easily be converted into a number of other cartridges.