Possibility of gun bans.

[1911 guy]

Let's try this again. Apparently my attempt at supporting argument was either not well written or not well recieved.

When someone asks about a future gun ban, it's fine and correct (for now) to tell them there's nothing in the works for the near future. But lying to them and saying "It'll never happen" is just that, a lie.

We are basing this assumption (that there will be no ban) on the faulty logic that our elected representatives actually represent us. They have not for some time. What public opinion and will is has no bearing on how your congressmen and senators vote. They will not even attempt to justify the contravening of the will of the people anymore. They now have the precedent of "passing it so we can see what's in it" to ramrod through any and all legislation including gun bans. This actually opens the door to FAR more sweeping and restrictive bans and laws than would have been possible before.

Am I advising mass panic and irrational fear? No. But it's also foolish in the extreme, and irresponsible for those who are looked to for answers, to put our heads in the sand and pretend it can't happen. It has before and will again. The only questions are "When?" and "To what extent?".

I will admit to some frustration at seeing the moderators of a pro-gun ownership board being the first and loudest to shout down any discussion of the possibility of a ban. While logic does indicate there will be no ban in the forseeable future, we have been shown repeatedly, by several administrations, that logic is not the ruling factor in legislation. Nor is the will of the people.

In short, the answer to "the question" is not an emphatic "No", but a humble "not likely, but let's not get complacent."

 

[hso]

While very few actually represent us, there are a few that support us and the rest that haven't learned to fear us certainly learned to be cautious. The backlash from the AWB made it clear that there are significant consequences politically for individuals and parties that backed that foolish piece of legislation and that would take another direct attack on gunowners.

As long as we have elected officials that are pro and the anti politicians understand the consequences of attempting to push an AWB we won't see an overt piece of legislation to ban firearms. More subtle efforts will have to be made to restrict firearms ownership. Those are what we have to be vigilant for.

 

[Frank Ettin]

The RKBA interests also wield a certain amount of political power, as well as having a couple helpful court decisions on the books.

Beyond that, without something actually being on the table discussing "gun bans" is nothing but speculation. Shall we discuss the possibility that handguns with barrels less than five inches long might be banned? How about the possible banning of semi-automatic handguns with detachable magazines? None of these things are happening (thank God), what's to discuss?

Why distract ourselves with fantasy. Surely there are things worth discussing that actually going on in the real world. There is considerable gun law litigation in the hopper. Are there no gun bills pending or that we know are being written and that should be discussed? Are there worthwhile ideas for pro-gun legislation that should be pursued (probably an "Activism" topic)?

Yes, it's possible that someone in some legislative body in the United States is considering introducing legislation banning some types of guns. Now what?

And of course we must not become complacent, and we need to be vigilant. But that involves keeping our focus on what's going on, not on chasing chimeras.

 

[Sam1911]

...shout down any discussion of the possibility of a ban

What in the world is the point of such a discussion supposed to be?

If there is no proposal on the table, and no direct evidence of any discernible movement toward an actual proposal to put on the table, what are we talking about?

What COULD they try to ban? Who knows? Everything? Any one thing? Any combination of things. Guns? Ammo? Primers? Bullets? The ink they use to print ammo box labels?

When will they try to do this? Tomorrow? Next week? Next year? The day after the Mayan calendar expires?

There just seems to be less than no value (in fact, there is some harm) in directionless speculation. Unless you're just looking for the warm emotional buzz of getting worked up over what could be, might be, someday, but isn't ... why expend the energy?

You can't be REACTIVE when there is no physical thing to act against.

Work on furthering gun rights and expanding the ranks of gun owners and knowledgeable, enthusiastic shooters. That's actually PROACTIVE. That helps safeguard our rights. Keep your eyes open to actual threats in the making and respond to them with all your ability.

But sitting around in a circle getting each other all hot and bothered over the possibility of a threat that isn't happening is pointless and exhausting. In such, it actually HARMS our ability to act when we need to.

 

[SilentStalker]

I am with you and I certainly entertain the idea that it is possible. I have thought a lot about this as there are several people I know that are concerned about the very same thing you address here. However, I believe where there is a will there is a way and that works both ways. If someone wanted to push it through bad enough and initiate an all out ban then they will find a way and there is plenty of countries and organizations that would like nothing more than to disarm us. On the other hand, I don't believe that the government has the ability to track and seize all firearms. I know some people that have gone to the extent of burying some of their guns in a hill in some undisclosed locale. That is borderline crazy, but in the end, if someone did come house to house to collect then I guess this crazy person's stuff would be safe. There is no way to keep up with every one of them in most states. For example, in my state I can sale to any individual I want and I do not have to keep records. So, if someone came asking all you have to do is send them around in circles saying I sold it to so and so. Then they go ask him and he says the same thing and therefore nobody ever really gets anything. I do not see the government wasting that much time and effort on this.

Even if someone did implement a total ban it would be an instant civil war IMO, which nobody wants. There are those that would be willing to fight for their rights. I do not believe that anyone would be stupid enough to implement such an order on the American people unless their intent was to divide and conquer. That is certainly possible but I don't see any sane person doing it. After all of that even if they did manage to come house to house, like I said they will not get all of them. So, you might supposed they go after ammo but that won't matter either as there are plenty of people running around with lots of ingenuity and I do not think it would be that difficult for someone to come up with a way to produce their own. Many people already have reloading equipment. Even if they run out of supplies there are those that know how to make more. The only way to rid the world of guns would be to travel back in time and make sure that they were never invented. Its the same thing with the nuclear bomb.

 

[mboylan]

Any new restrictions are extremely unlikely given the current political climate and Congress.

 

[Midwest]

Even if someone did implement a total ban it would be an instant civil war IMO, which nobody wants. There are those that would be willing to fight for their rights. I do not believe that anyone would be stupid enough to implement such an order on the American people unless their intent was to divide and conquer. That is certainly possible but I don't see any sane person doing it. After all of that even if they did manage to come house to house, like I said they will not get all of them. So, you might supposed they go after ammo but that won't matter either as there are plenty of people running around with lots of ingenuity and I do not think it would be that difficult for someone to come up with a way to produce their own. Many people already have reloading equipment.

.
A total gun ban would be unenforceable, there aren't enough people who would comply except maybe in anti-gun cities and a state or two. Also the logistics of the proverbial 'going house to house' would be a logistical nightmare.

Conservatively speaking I am willing to guess that 1/4 to 1/2 of all firearms owners own at least one or two firearms bought second hand or third hand. There is no way those could be ever 'tracked down'.

Even in the extremely remote situation of a 'gun ban' there is not enough resources to go through all the 4473's issued in the last 20 years in attempt to 'track down' those original purchasers. And even then it would be a safe bet that 1/4 to 1/2 of those 4473's , the original purchaser moved, died or sold the firearm to someone else.

And there are states rights which to contend with, many state constitutions guarantee the right to bear arms and most if not all of them predate the 1968 GCA and the 1934 Gun laws by a hundred years or more....

 

[danweasel]

I would say that this topic really has run it's course (many, many times) and will probably end up locked either way, so why not do it now? I would respectfully submit that the only result of this thread can be hurt feelings and division among THR members.

As for myself, I am firmly of the mind that making up things to be afraid of is silly. There are enough real things to fear in life without worrying about upcoming gun bans, UN invasions or (uh-oh) the impending zombie apocalypse.

 

[Texan Scott]

Like bears!

Omygosh, if they ban guns, how will we protect ourselves from BEARS?

(Since this seemed like a bear-baiting thread to begin with.... )

 

[Frank Ettin]

Okay, let's end this before we start arming bears or arming bares or otherwise get more punchy.

If there are real legal issues, if there is real legislation being introduced, if there things actually going on, those are fair subjects for discussion. But "Blue Sky" speculation doesn't do us any good.