PPC tips and tricks

[Jenrick]

So from browsing through the results of a search regarding PPC here on THR, we have some folks who shot at a a VERY high level in the sport. I'm just getting started in it, after a co-worker told me a match that is relatively local (in Texas anything less then 4 hours away is local) coming up soon. We've been practicing, but any tips folks can pass along I'd appreciate.

For what it matters, he's probably going to be shooting the new production division or stock semi-auto, and distinguished semi-auto; and I'm planning on shooting service revolver, distinguished revolver, and production. I'd like to at some point get into open-revolver but that's down the road.

Shooting the distinguished/production course of fire, it only goes back to the 25yd. I'm able to keep it together through 15, and usually am around 295-298 with 15x-20x. The barricade shooting at 25 is killing me though. Kneeling I can usually shoot clean or only drop a point or 2. Once it goes to L/R barricade it looks like someone started patterning a shotgun. I could probably shoot the RH barricade string better with one hand (actually I'm quiet sure I could). Reading the rules it looks like I don't have to actually be in contact with the barricade, I just have to shoot around it, and keep my feet behind the fault line. Does that sound right?

Thanks in advance,

-Jenrick

 

[MrBorland]

I've never shot PPC, but always wanted to give it a whirl.

The barricade shooting at 25 is killing me though. Kneeling I can usually shoot clean or only drop a point or 2. Once it goes to L/R barricade it looks like someone started patterning a shotgun.

The first part of Stage 3 of the IDPA classifier is shot from both sides of a barricade. Shooters typically find they drop a disproportionate number of points here, and it's often for a few key reasons: 1) crowding the barricade, so they're forced into an unstable position, 2) leaning their upper body (and gun) too much while simultaneously canting the the muzzle inboard, so they're not really establishing a good sight picture and are pushing their shots wide and 3) rushing their shots.

My FWIW-advice, then, is to stay back from the barricade (at least an arm's length), keep your body and gun as vertical as you can, be very aware of your sight picture, and relax and take your time.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

 

[GooseGestapo]

First recommendation, Go shoot!

Remember, it originated as a means of encouraging l.e. officers to practice and become better shots.

Take plenty of ammo! Due to potential for crossfires at 50yd line, you may need to refire a stage. Also, you may be allowed to shoot an additional practice match.

Rules have relaxed a bit recently regarding ammo, sights, and barrel lengths. For beginning, a 4" 686 or Mod19 would be a great choice for revolver.
Production auto, the Springfield Range Officer.

For the barricade, use your typical two hand hold, and place the back of your hand against the barricade. I could never get the knuckle press position to work for me.

You'll learn enough from the first match that you'll improve for the next.
Let us know how you do!

My resume:
Rev. Dist.; S.A. Dist.;High Master Rev.; Master S.A.; Natl. Rec. Off duty 480-43, May '98.
Tie Nat.Rec. Match 1, Match 2, Match 7, Match 8, Srv. Rev.
Second pl. shotgun 2002 NPSC; 550-5x (held Nat. Rec for 2-relays, now second best score ever fired, 6x still holds record; no clean score fired since).
Won several regionals, State championships.
Not as active in last several yrs. have to go adjacent states to shoot. Gas over $3gal, and loading components scarce, diminished my interest/enthusiasm.
I've started shooting High Power at CMP Talladega.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

I've never shot PPC, but always wanted to give it a whirl.



The first part of Stage 3 of the IDPA classifier is shot from both sides of a barricade. Shooters typically find they drop a disproportionate number of points here, and it's often for a few key reasons: 1) crowding the barricade, so they're forced into an unstable position, 2) leaning their upper body (and gun) too much while simultaneously canting the the muzzle inboard, so they're not really establishing a good sight picture and are pushing their shots wide and 3) rushing their shots.

My FWIW-advice, then, is to stay back from the barricade (at least an arm's length), keep your body and gun as vertical as you can, be very aware of your sight picture, and relax and take your time.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

+1

I have seen people crowd the barricade as well.

Try to stay away from the barricade.
On a side note: if too close, people tend to "chase the muzzle of their gun around the barricade. That puts people at risk of breaking the 180.

I also try to mentally slow down for the longer shots and get a good trigger press and hold steady.

 

[Jenrick]

All thanks for the advice. I've been trying to shoot the courses of fire as much as time will permit lately, but as always work seems to get in the way. For those that aren't familiar with PPC, the barricades can be used for support. A lot of people really lean into/on them to help stabilize the gun at 25 and 50 yds. I've been trying to figure out how to take advantage of a little extra support, but I may need to accept that it just doesn't work for me.

I'll say that shooting a semi-auto support handed with a two hand grip feels about as wrong as pickles on an ice cream sundae (or other less family friendly phrasing as you'd prefer). Shooting production semi-auto with my duty pistol, I finally just said the heck with it, for the support hand at 25 and shot it one handed. I only dropped 1 into the 7 low, the rest were scattered across the X-8 ring. I think I'll stick with that for a while. Oddly enough shooting a revolver DA support hand really doesn't feel weird to me, I just need to adjust how I'm working off the barricade.

-Jenrick

 

[Murphys Law]

The barricade shooting at 25 is killing me though. Kneeling I can usually shoot clean or only drop a point or 2. Once it goes to L/R barricade it looks like someone started patterning a shotgun.-Jenrick

I remember having the same difficulties when I first started PPC

Some ranges have barricades that are very stable, while other ranges have what amounts to a plank stuck in the ground. The more play in the barricade, the less you want to lean into them as they will act like a diving board. I only lean into them with almost no pressure added to the barricade, but just enough pressure to take the wobble out of your front sight.

As for the grip, I would take a normal grip with my revolver and then only used the two lower knuckles of my support hand ( pinkie and ring finger ) to lightly contact the barricade. You can try this at home by just placing your fist against the edge of two walls or a doorway and finding the sweet spot that's most comfortable for you. Good Luck!

 

[Saw-Bones]

@Jenric - I haven't shot PPC since 1983 at which time I was a police member of the Sheriff's Pistol Team and we shot PPC and IPSC/USPSA matches.

I have a technique that helped me maintain my (Enhanced - min. 298/300) Distinguished Expert classification and win a few matches, but this pertains to revolvers only. So, if that's your game let me know and I'll explain..... Doc

 

[Jenrick]

Sorry was out of the country for a wedding.

Murphys Law - Yeah the barricades I have to practice with don't do anything for stability. I'll try going for minimal contact and see how that works out.

Saw-Bones - I'd love to hear what you've got. I'm taking my 4" M15 as my primary gun for the match, I'm only taking my work M&P with me because I'd never hear the end of it if I didn't.

-Jenrick

 

[Saw-Bones]

Staging A Revolver

@ Jenrick - This technique is strictly for PPC competition. Practicing ONLY this method almost cost me my life in my first shootout as a police officer. I promise you that when bullets are coming your way the last thing you will be thinking about is staging the revolver.

To stage a revolver you have to initially pull the trigger rapidly and then stop pulling the trigger abruptly in order to set the cylinder in motion causing it to continue to rotate on its own until the bolt catches the cylinder without the hammer moving any further.*

At this point you are no longer dragging the weight of the cylinder around and only the movement of the hammer, including the resistance of the hammer spring** is at hand.

The idea is to only have the last, low resistance movement of the hammer to deal with, so the pull on the trigger is reduced resulting in less movement of the gun. This makes more sense when you realize that the trigger finger moves in an arc creating lateral movement on the trigger and the resultant lateral movement of the gun barrel itself.

*The mechanical downside to this technique is that when the bolt catches the cylinder it will cause the bolt to peen the bolt window. This takes many, many thousands of stagings to happen and it is a cost of having an advantage… it’s also easy and cheap to repair.

**A trigger job is an absolute necessity to make the final pull the best that it can be. This includes lightening the hammer spring to the point that anymore will result in a light strike. Remember, you want more reliability than that in a combat revolver! I tuned my hammer spring based on the use of Federal small pistol primers which, at the time, had the softest cup and required the least impact to set off.

There was a time, and it still may be so, that almost all the top shooters staged their revolvers. It probably is a good idea to go to a PPC match and observe the top shooters if you’re having any problems putting this into practice and also to get other shooters’ opinions.

Good luck. Hope this helps… Doc

 

[Saw-Bones]

Another Tip

@ Jenrick - Another tip: You mentioned that you were taking your M15 as your primary gun. I’m assuming you mean the S&W Model 15 and if yours still has the grooves on the trigger face then you’ll have to get them removed so the surface is smooth. Again, the trigger finger is moving in an arc and the grooves will cause resistance which will have a tendency to cause lateral movement of the gun barrel. The finger has to be able to slide on the trigger. S&W used to offer the smooth face trigger as an option, called a “combat trigger” - iirc.

The only advantage I can see in the grooved trigger is for single action use..... Doc

 

[Jenrick]

Saw-Bones:

Thanks for the tips, that's one of the best explanations for staging the trigger I've read. Yep, my M15 does have the serrated target trigger. I'm definitely in agree that it's not that great for this type of shooting. I may see if I can find a smooth combat trigger to replace it with.

-Jenrick