Pressure Signs?

[Ida Noski]

Howdy!
I would like some opinions on this load. 15.5 grains of W296 with Winchester magnum primer, 158 grn Hornady XTP. Heavy crimp.
Sorry about the quality of the pic but the primers are really flattened.
Being fired out of a 6" 686.
Accurate round. Kind of snappy but the gun loves them and are very accurate.
I've heard conflicting stories about flattened primers being a pressure indicator.
Whattya'all think?

Thanks!

 

[wally]

How is extraction of th empties? Don't look too bad to me, but a better quality photo would help. If extraction is about the same as factory ammo I'd say you should be OK.

--wally.

 

[trueblue1776]

I can't really see the primers well. Unless you seat too deep it should be fine.

 

[Ida Noski]

'Fraid that's the best I can do for photo's.
The one on the right is unfired.
Good point on the extraction. No problems there. Everything popped right out with no resistance.
Brass is new, so no loose pockets.
Could the load be too light? I've searched some of the other headings and see conflicting stories regarding this.
Thanks guys!

 

[Clark]

In 357 mag I look for difficulty in extraction.
I also look for primer top hat or piercing.

When 357 mags were made with thinner chamber walls, the pressure had to be reduced to avoid sticky cases:
http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/cartridge_expansion.html

 

[Stinger]

The primer on the left looks a little cratered, but the one on the right is too shiny to tell.

Primers are only one sign of pressure, and in and of themselves probably don't amount to much. Particularly at handgun pressures. I think that if the cases aren't sticking you load is probably good.

I think running those over a chronograph would be a good idea if you can find access. If not, buy one. It's probably the best $100 buck I've spent in a long time. It's not a pressure gauge, but it helps put pieces (signs) together so that you can make better judgements.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Primers are not a good way to judge pressure. Especially with .357 magnum...No matter what I load in my .357 magnum cases I have flattened primers. Unless I load down to .38 Special levels. Flattened primers are usually attributed to the fired cases having the primer back out a bit before the case is slammed back against the frame of the gun. Thus flattening the primer as it is reseated back into the primer pocket. Unless you are seeing punctured primers, soot around the primer and pocket, cratered or as one poster said "top Hatting" flattened primers are not a sign of over pressure. Hard extraction and ballooned cases is...I see no flattened primers in your photo. There is still a gap between primer and primer pocket edge. The one on the right hasn't been fired yet. Right?

 

[Mal H]

Whattya'all think?

You asked - I gotta tell ya. I think you need to get a picture cropping program. After about 2 minutes of loading what looked like pink burlap, the picture finally completed and I could see the cases. (My satellite connection is out right now, and I am forced to use a 56K dial-up. Some members have to do that all the time.) Your 711K pic can be cropped to under 50K.

As for the primer - what The Bushmaster said. The fired primer looks perfectly normal to me considering the load and the caliber. A better test of over pressure is expansion of the case at the web. Measure the diameter at the web of a good representative lot of your new brass, and measure again after firing what might be a hot load. Any expansion is a hint of over pressure, but if the expansion is .001" or more (some use .0005"), the hint is gone, it's now a fact.

 

[dodgestdshift]

My Speer #13 gives 14.7 gr. of 296 as the maximum for their 158 grain bullets. I know that it is a different bullet, but I would be careful. What does Hornady say about that bullet?

 

[GP100man]

ida
ive used winchester primers a long time & what you re exp . is normal.
some times i double check by using a cci 550 primer,i promise itll look different!!
my feelings are that the lot of brass for the cups is softer than in the past???
wanted to add that i dont consider the primer a pressure indicator.

GP100man

 

[trueblue1776]

Dodge- the Hodgdon/Winchester data center puts that load about dead center between min (15.0) and max (16.7) for that exact bullet.

Here's the link if you haven't seen it, it makes a good easy source for a double check.

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

 

[Ida Noski]

trueblue,
Thanks for that link.
Mal,
Yeah, I know the picture sucks. It was the best I could do with what I had to work with.
The primer on the right (the blurry one) is unfired.
So, it seems from all of the info here, thanks to everyone who replied, there is no issue.
Like I said, the rounds are "snappy" and I do not have hard data (paper targets) to qualify their accuracy, but shooting dirt and rocks and pop cans, etc. they seemed to be quite accurate. Offhand, I hit pretty much everything I aimed at, and I am NOT a great pistolero
I bought "The Complete Reloading Manual for the .357 Magnum" and the data for the Hornady XTP 158 JHP shows for the top end of W296 to be 15.2 gr @ 1200 fps with a max of 16.0 gr for 1250 fps.
Thanks again to everyone and feel free to continue.
Oh, and Stinger, yes a chrono is on my list!

Hold hard

Jim

 

[Clark]

I fired these handloads and shot this picture yesterday with a little 4" tri pod.
It really makes a difference for keeping it from being blurry.

What does it all mean?
The picture of the brass is clear, because it was taken with the bi pod on the table.
The picture of the bi pod is fuzzy, because it was taken [in a mirror] with the bi pod in my shaky hands.

 

[pbonebright]

I think you need to get a picture cropping program.

slightly OT but I'll be brief:

http://www.irfanview.com/

PB