Primers - Flogging The Dead Horse Maybe

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GJeffB

GJeffB

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Me, posting little lurking a lot …
I think I have this, but multiple checking here and elsewhere:

Reloading .45 Colt. Mid-range charges (7.5+/-) of Universal, 255gr Keith SWC and 250gr coated RNFP in the NM Blackhawk. CCI 300 LP primers. The primers are getting harder to find.

Q: In a pinch, I can use LP Magnum (various manufacturers), back the load down by 10-ish% and re-work watching for the pressure signs. <--- Is that a correct statement?

-jb, ready to use cannon fuse :oops:
 
I would probably drop down to just 7grn and quickly work back up. That's what I would do with Unique... Universal isn't much different from what I understand.
 
GJeffB said:
...Mid-range charges (7.5+/-) of Universal...

Q: In a pinch, I can use LP Magnum (various manufacturers), back the load down by 10-ish% and re-work...
Click to expand...

The 10% back-off rule-of-thumb uses a maximum load as the starting point, vs mid-range. Potential problems if the charge is below published minimum.
 
Charlie98 said:
I always thought Universal was Hodgdon's answer to Unique... with about the same burn rate?
Click to expand...

I would drop 10% - 15% or so and see what happens. Magnum primers should not make too much difference but it’s better to back off too much than not enough in my opinion if that’s what you absolutely have to do. Times are tough so do what needs to be done to make a bang, just don’t make it a boom lol!
For what it’s worth, unique and universal are 31 & 32 on the relative burn rate chart so they should be pretty darn close on pressures.
5DD624F4-9238-4FB7-9D83-3C58736206C6.jpeg
 
I reload .45 colt for marlin levergun and .45 auto for blackhawk convertible and like you I've been forced to go to large pistol magnum primers. Not the same powders as you but I've always reloaded to the low end of the scale .
The extra oopm provided by magnum doesn't seem to impact me in terms of recoil, accuracy etc. No chrono or access to one..Just plinking. I do remember feeling a little nervous the first time I shot the magnum primer :)
 
You won't see any pressure signs from your Blackhawk until you get up around 36kpsi.

Non Ruger only loads (like the one you listed) top out around 14kpsi.

Your Blackhawk will handle the hottest 45Colt loads found in any reloading manual, and those hot Ruger only loads top out around 30kpsi depending on which manual you have.

Switching to a magnum primer, with the light load of Universal you listed, isn't going to have any meaningful effect on pressure in the Blackhawk whatsoever.

It could possibly change the accuracy of the load though. A slight tweaking of the powder charge might be needed after switching.
 
Very well stated.
mrawesome22-250 said:
You won't see any pressure signs from your Blackhawk until you get up around 36kpsi.

Non Ruger only loads (like the one you listed) top out around 14kpsi.

Your Blackhawk will handle the hottest 45Colt loads found in any reloading manual, and those hot Ruger only loads top out around 30kpsi depending on which manual you have.

Switching to a magnum primer, with the light load of Universal you listed, isn't going to have any meaningful effect on pressure in the Blackhawk whatsoever.

It could possibly change the accuracy of the load though. A slight tweaking of the powder charge might be needed after switching.
Click to expand...
 
GJeffB said:
NM Blackhawk.
Click to expand...

mrawesome22-250 said:
Your Blackhawk will handle the hottest 45Colt loads found in any reloading manual, and those hot Ruger only loads top out around 30kpsi depending on which manual you have.
Click to expand...

No, not quite. The NM Blackhawk is built on the smaller (newer) frame, not the old Blackhawk/Vaquero frame. I get mixed up on the models now and then... someone correct me if I'm wrong...
 
You are correct. The old large frame model was made for the 44 MAG and modified to 45 Colt. I have a pair I use for CAS.Those are built like a proverbial tank. The newer ones are lighter andlook more like an original colt proportionally to me. The thinner backstrap is not something I will pay for.
 
FROGO207 said:
You are correct. The old large frame model was made for the 44 MAG and modified to 45 Colt. I have a pair I use for CAS.Those are built like a proverbial tank. The newer ones are lighter andlook more like an original colt proportionally to me. The thinner backstrap is not something I will pay for.
Click to expand...
I have two of the new model , lighter weight blackhawks. You are quite right as far as I'm concerned.
 
I have an old Vaquero in .45 Colt, and I have had a NM Blackhawk... a .44SPC Flattop. I like the feel of the NM... it's a right handy pistol, but I would not push the loads. The Vaquero, on the other hand, doesn't even flinch... but it feels a little... uh... porky in the hand.
 
Agree to disagree. The manuals state Ruger only. They don't specify large frame, medium frame, flat top frame...

Just says Ruger only.

Most Ruger data tops out at 25kpsi. Western Powders is the only one I've seen that goes to 30kpsi.

I can't think of any Ruger in 45Colt that I would feel uncomfortable running 25kpsi in, including the New Vaquero.
 
GJeffB said:
Q: In a pinch, I can use LP Magnum (various manufacturers), back the load down by 10-ish% and re-work watching for the pressure signs. <--- Is that a correct statement?
Click to expand...

To answer your question and get back on the topic. I have done recently exactly what your inquiring about. I've found testing large pistol magnum in 10mm vs standard. Small pistol magnum vs standard in 9mm. I have recently tested small pistol magnum in small primer'd 10mm because thats a thing now. I can report that in every instance there was no discernable difference except to say that in certain powders I wasn't getting a complete burn with standard primers in 10mm. Is that due to the function of the primer or the idea that 10mm prefers to be loaded with these certain powders at the higher end of the pressure curve? I only had a single fail to fire in a single 40 round loaded using sm mag primer. This round fired upon second try. I feel it was a matter of the harder primer cup. I did start at the minimum starting charge and worked up to full power watching my cases closely.
Your results may vary and I always recommend using recommend load data with correct components.
Let us know your results.
Be safe and happy loading.

Coldfinger
 
mrawesome22-250 said:
Agree to disagree. The manuals state Ruger only. They don't specify large frame, medium frame, flat top frame...

Just says Ruger only.

Most Ruger data tops out at 25kpsi. Western Powders is the only one I've seen that goes to 30kpsi.

I can't think of any Ruger in 45Colt that I would feel uncomfortable running 25kpsi in, including the New Vaquero.
Click to expand...

Very likely that data was kicked out before the NM Blackhawk was released. I understand your point of view... but I would caution ANYONE trying to run Ruger-Only loads in a New Model... they are NOT the same pistol.
 
As the op noted. Primers are hard to find which is why I grabbed a case of Federal Magnum Small Pistol Primers when I found them. YesterdayI loaded 100 rounds of 9MM for a continuing search for an accurate load for a PCC using the standard small pistol primers and added 10 rounds with the magnum primers. I chronographed those 10 and 10 of the magnum primed ones. Difference in FPS was minimal. Average 10 shot regular sp, 1240FPS Average 10 shot for magnum sp 1255FPS.
Rifle data was 5.3 grains of Power Pistol and a 124 grain plated round nose. Accuracy at 50 yards was/is dismal. Back to the bench, but with Power Pistol at least regular and magnum primers aren’t much different. I’ll have to try TiteGroup next..
The magnum primers will have to do, m its about all I got left in small pistol primers.
 
Wow, that certainly went farther than I expected. Thank you all for comments, recommendations and cautions.
As to the cannon fuse ... can't figure out how to get the darn thing lit :p

Be well and healthy all
-jb
 
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