Prison Population Soars In The U.K.

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WonderNine

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Prisons are only 'days away' from running out of cells

Martin Bright, home affairs editor
Sunday March 7, 2004

The Observer

Jails in England and Wales will hit full capacity within days, prompting emergency plans to house prisoners in police and court cells.
This weekend there were just 231 spare places left across the country, sparking fears that prison overcrowding could make some of the larger prisons unmanageable.

In the past week alone, numbers rose by 183 to a record 74,960, with a real possibility that the 'full operational capacity' could be reached by the end of this week. In the past decade, the prison population has risen by 25,000 amid concerns over riots and an epidemic of suicides. Since Labour came to power, the prison population has risen by almost 15,000.

The news comes as the Home Office prepares to implement a new strategy on women in the criminal justice system, which could release thousands of minor female criminals to serve their sentences in the community.

Ministers are known to be concerned about the explosion of the women's prison population and have recognised that the vast majority of prisoners should not be there.

Home Office research into the women's prison population, to be published this week, will show that numbers have more than tripled in 10 years from 1,800 to 5,500.

Prison Minister Paul Goggins is likely to repeat his comments to a recent inquiry into a series of suicides at Styal women's prison in Cheshire: 'A key priority is to ensure that custody is only used for women who really need to be in prison.'

As fewer than 20 per cent of women have committed violent crimes, prison reformers argue that the women's prison population could return to its 1994 level with no danger to the public.

The Home Office is planning to create an additional 1,820 places in the next financial year, with a construction programme that includes two new prisons in Surrey and Cambridgeshire.

Contingency plans have been put in place to commandeer cells in police stations and courts, but senior police officers are opposed.

A Home Office spokeswoman said it was looking at ways to extend the home detention curfew scheme, which allows short-term prisoners to spend the last part of their sentence in the community on an electronic tag. At present, the use of the scheme varies around the country, depending on decisions by individual governors. 'We are encouraging consistency across the country. That applies to governors' use of curfew and the courts' use of community punishments.'

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,6903,1163895,00.html
 
The death penalty would relieve some of that but the UK doesn't have it.

So murders rot in jail.
 
Fewer laws on the books would probably have a positive impact as well ;)

From what I understand even minor drug posessions will earn you jail time in the UK.
 
Fewer laws on the books would probably have a positive impact as well

From what I understand even minor drug posessions will earn you jail time in the UK.

I don't think they're as big on locking people up for minor drug offenses as the US is - if you multiply their prison population by a factor of 6 (the comparitive population difference between US/UK), you'll see their prison population is quite low compared to ours. Even rapists and burglars don't get locked up for very long over there (and not long enough here).
 
From what I understand even minor drug posessions will earn you jail time in the UK.

not true, drug laws are quite liberal over there. The 'crime problem' has to do with caribbean gangs mainly from jamaica.

atek3
 
How interesting...

not true, drug laws are quite liberal over there. The 'crime problem' has to do with caribbean gangs mainly from jamaica.

I hear that quite a bit from my ex-pat Brit's family when they're over here in the States for a visit, when the discussions turn to comparing the crime rates between the US and the UK.

"If it weren't for all the Yardies (Caribbean drug gangs)..."

"Of course, most of all the real violence is the Yardies..."

"The Yardies..."

"Yardies... Yardies... Yardies..."

Not really a substantive comment on this thread (i.e. the UK prision population), but if I were to say, "Gee, if America could "get rid" of all it's black inner-city gang members and drug dealers, we'd have barely any crime problem." people would be wondering where my pointy white hat and burning cross was.

It's amazing how much nicer it sounds when the key word is something cute like "Yardies", and it's said with a quaint British accent... :rolleyes:

I just keep my mouth shut and smile. As most gun-owners know, demanding simple things like intelectual honesty, and a level playing field in the marketplace of ideas, merely gets you looked upon as a crackpot.
 
In the past decade, the prison population has risen by 25,000 amid concerns over riots and an epidemic of suicides.
Ummm . . . if you kept the guards separate from the prisoners, it seems that riots and an epidemic of suicides would reduce the overcrowding.

Duh!

:evil:
 
"Not really a substantive comment on this thread (i.e. the UK prision population), but if I were to say, "Gee, if America could "get rid" of all it's black inner-city gang members and drug dealers, we'd have barely any crime problem." people would be wondering where my pointy white hat and burning cross was."

Sometimes being able to see the elephant in the living room doesn't mean you are a member of the KKK. Identifying gang problems does not equate with being anti-Black or anti-Jamaican.
 
The temptation to sell illegal drugs at a huge profit is not limited by race. Perhaps the real elephant in the room is the disastrous War on Drugs.

Organized crime is almost universally funded by black markets. Instead of legalizing drugs, gambling and prostitution, cities like New York levy enormous taxes on cigarettes, creating yet another black market to encourage gang activity.

After a decade, legislators realized the folly of alcohol Prohibition, repealed it, and organized crime declined precipitously. Its 30 years and counting; when are we going to realize that the War on Drugs is unwinnable, even if you believe it ought to be won, which is debatable? The mentality that results in drug prohibition is the same mentality that results in oppressive gun laws.

Do we want universal freedom, or simply freedom for us to do the things we want to be able to do?

316SS
 
This is a simple problem...

Just dump the worst of the worst on some island to free up space.
Hey, Austrailia turned out just fine didnt they! :D
 
316SS:

I don't support the War on Drugs, but if you think that Jamaican gangsters would be manning lemonade carts and studying to be barristers I think you are seriously deluded. Some people prefer high-risk, high-return professions and do not scruple to harm others. Immediate gratification implies a whole set of values and actions.
 
I hear that quite a bit from my ex-pat Brit's family when they're over here in the States for a visit, when the discussions turn to comparing the crime rates between the US and the UK.

"If it weren't for all the Yardies (Caribbean drug gangs)..."

"Of course, most of all the real violence is the Yardies..."

"The Yardies..."

"Yardies... Yardies... Yardies..."

Not really a substantive comment on this thread (i.e. the UK prision population), but if I were to say, "Gee, if America could "get rid" of all it's black inner-city gang members and drug dealers, we'd have barely any crime problem." people would be wondering where my pointy white hat and burning cross was.

Certainly neither of those statements are exactly true, but both of them have a large enough kernel of truth to ponder upon. The United States has (and you can choose your cause for this based upon your outlook on life) a vastly greater pool of people who are culturally similar to yardies than does the UK. If 3 or 5 percent of the American population lives a "yardie" lifestyle compared to only 1/4 or 1/2 of a percent of the UK population, it isn't to be wondered at that we have a disproportionate amount of lethal violence to theirs. Dr. Suter chronicles this in a very good essay...




http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Suter/med-lit/seattle.html

Why are the Black and Hispanic homicide rates so high in Seattle?
Sloan JH, Kellermann AL, Reay DT, et al. "Handgun Regulations, Crime, Assaults, and Homicide: A Tale of Two Cities." N Engl J Med 1988; 319: 1256-62.
methodological and conceptual errors:

attempted a simplistic single-cause interpretation of differences observed in demographically dissimilar cities and cultures
purported to evaluate the efficacy of Canadian gun control without evaluating the situation before the law
the Vancouver homicide rate increased 25% after the institution of the 1977 Canadian law
failed to acknowledge that, except for Blacks and Hispanics, homicide rates were lower in the US than in Canada
Sloan, Kellermann, and their co-authors attempted to prove that Canada's gun laws caused low rates of violence. [42] In their study of Vancouver, the authors failed to compare homicide rates before and after the law. As Blackman noted, [43] they had ignored or overlooked that Vancouver had 26% more homicides after the Canadian gun ban, an observation that should warrant scientific exploration and generate a healthy skepticism of the authors' foregone conclusions. Blackman's critique and analogy were so "on target" as to be amusing:

"... The Vancouver-Seattle 'study' is the equivalent of testing an experimental drug to control hypertension by finding two ordinary-looking, middle class white men, one 25 years old and the other 40, and without first taking their vital signs, administering the experimental drug to the 25-year-old while giving the 40-year-old a placebo, then taking their blood pressure and, on finding the younger man to have a lower blood pressure, announcing in a 'special article' a new medical breakthrough. It would be nice to think that such a study would neither be funded by the taxpayers nor published in the [New England Journal of Medicine]." [43]
Since its publication this article on gun control is among those most frequently cited, though this small scale (two cities) study has been thoroughly debunked by three large scale (national and multi-national) studies. [44] [45] [46] Kellermann and Sloan's biased interpretation of their data, asserting that guns are to blame for crime, assaults, and homicide, is even refuted by their own statistics.

Kellermann and Sloan glossed over the disparate ethnic compositions of Seattle (12.1% Black and Hispanic; 7.4% Asian) and Vancouver (0.8% Black and Hispanic; 22.1% Asian). The importance? Despite typically higher prevalence of legal gun ownership amongst non-Hispanic-Caucasians in the US, [10] the homicide rate was lower for non-Hispanic-Caucasian Seattle residents (6.2 per 100,000) than for those in adjacent Vancouver, Canada (6.4). Only because the Seattle Black (36.6) and Hispanic (26.9) homicide rates were astronomic could the authors make their claim. [See Graph 14: "Ethnic and Racial Groups -- Seattle and Vancouver" & Graph 15: "Homicide Rates by Ethnic and Racial Group -- Seattle and Vancouver"]

Could guns have some special evil influence over Blacks and Hispanics, but not others? Hardly! The authors failed to identify the inescapable truth. The roots of inner-city violence lie in the disruption of the family, the breakdown of society, desperate and demoralized poverty, promotion of violence by the media, [47] [48] the profit of the drug trade, the pathology of substance abuse, child abuse, disrespect for authority, and racism -- not in gun ownership.

For an even-handed and scholarly cross-cultural comparison of guns, violence, and gun control, the reader is referred to Kopel's compendium. [11] If one reviews homicide and suicide data, despite high levels of gun ownership and high levels of gun control, the US fares well in comparison with many countries, even those supposedly "non-violent" nations whose gun controls the US is invited to emulate, such as Japan. How do US homicide, suicide, and intentional fatality (combined homicide and suicide) rates compare with other nations? [See Graph 10: "International Suicide Rates Comparisons"; Graph 16: "International Homicide Rates Comparisons"; and Graph 17: "International Intentional Fatality (Homicide+Suicide) Rates Comparisons"] Certainly the determinants of the levels of violence in a society are many and complex
 
longeyes-

you wrote:
I don't support the War on Drugs, but if you think that Jamaican gangsters would be manning lemonade carts and studying to be barristers I think you are seriously deluded. Some people prefer high-risk, high-return professions and do not scruple to harm others. Immediate gratification implies a whole set of values and actions.

Look, Prohibition was a time of all-out gang warfare. The gangs fought over who could transport and sell booze where. When Prohibition was repealed, the black market for liquor collapsed. Crime dropped. A lot. I assume you agree, since I understand this to be a point of historical fact.

The current situation is exactly analogous. If drugs were legalized, the Yardies wouldn't fade into the woodwork, but they certainly wouldn't be killing each other and innocents over turf to sell a legal, widely available product. Criminal gangs generally no longer fight over liquor-sales turf, because it's legal.

The converse is true. Due to extreme "vice" taxation, crime has increased in NYC around illicit cigarette sales. If you build it [a black market], they will come.

As a society we have become more obstinate, and less inclined to learn from history. But if this country ever comes to its senses and ceases the War on Drugs, the we'll know for sure the extent of my delusions (at least in this regard).

316SS
 
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