JNewell
Member
Wondering if the .30-06 Prvi Partizan 150gr FMJ load is OK in a Garand? I'm thinking not just of velocity and chamber pressure but pressure levels at the gas port. Thanks for any info.
Prvi Partizan .30-06 150gr OK in Garands?
- Thread starter JNewell
- Start date
- Status
Swampy
Member
JN,
Absolutely no way to know short of the manufacturer telling you (In writing) that the powder used in THAT PARTICULAR LOT has a burn rate no slower than IMR-4320.
Having said that.... I would never shoot any East Euro ammo through my M1's unless it's rated as M2 spec. Most of the Euro ammo (The Greek HXP and Danish AMA being the ONLY exceptions... both Greece and Denmark fielded the M1 and made ammo to shoot in it.) has a report that is waay louder than M2 and a huge muzzle flash. Both those characteristics being sure indicators of a powder that is way too slow for the M1's gas system.
You can do what you wish..... I'd never shoot it in any of mine.
Best regards,
Swampy
Garands forever
Absolutely no way to know short of the manufacturer telling you (In writing) that the powder used in THAT PARTICULAR LOT has a burn rate no slower than IMR-4320.
Having said that.... I would never shoot any East Euro ammo through my M1's unless it's rated as M2 spec. Most of the Euro ammo (The Greek HXP and Danish AMA being the ONLY exceptions... both Greece and Denmark fielded the M1 and made ammo to shoot in it.) has a report that is waay louder than M2 and a huge muzzle flash. Both those characteristics being sure indicators of a powder that is way too slow for the M1's gas system.
You can do what you wish..... I'd never shoot it in any of mine.
Best regards,
Swampy
Garands forever
JNewell
Member
Bumping this to see if anyone has additional thoughts?
Hi,
I've tested those 150gr FMJ ammo with a RCBS ammomaster chronograph in my M1917 first (it's 650mm barrel is 60mm longer than the M1: velocity should lose some ft/sec in the GARAND). Result: 2820ft/sec => 80 ft/sec slower that anounced on the PRVI website into 610mm barrel: curious, isn't it,?
Tried 16 PRVI rounds into my M1 and the average velocity was about 2630 ft/sec => not too hot for a M1...
Did they change their powder or the charge?
Or something wrong with my chronograph?
I've tested those 150gr FMJ ammo with a RCBS ammomaster chronograph in my M1917 first (it's 650mm barrel is 60mm longer than the M1: velocity should lose some ft/sec in the GARAND). Result: 2820ft/sec => 80 ft/sec slower that anounced on the PRVI website into 610mm barrel: curious, isn't it,?
Tried 16 PRVI rounds into my M1 and the average velocity was about 2630 ft/sec => not too hot for a M1...
Did they change their powder or the charge?
Or something wrong with my chronograph?
Is is simply a matter of chamber pressure/velocity or is it specifically the burn rate of the powder with the Garand?
When I got my M1 I had some ammo on hand labeled as military spec so I figured it would be OK in the Garand and 80 rounds went through it without any obvious problems. Then I tried some of my reloads that are a bit on the conservative side but not loaded with the M1 in mind and they also seemed fine.
I was unaware of this business with the narrow range of acceptable ammo when I got the Garand. IMO the situation sucks when you can't freely use any load in the caliber.
When I got my M1 I had some ammo on hand labeled as military spec so I figured it would be OK in the Garand and 80 rounds went through it without any obvious problems. Then I tried some of my reloads that are a bit on the conservative side but not loaded with the M1 in mind and they also seemed fine.
I was unaware of this business with the narrow range of acceptable ammo when I got the Garand. IMO the situation sucks when you can't freely use any load in the caliber.
JNewell
Member
SP, pressure curve matters with the Garand, more so than with many/most/maybe any other common gas rifle used today. And, yes, the "right" ammo is, I think, harder to find today than it was five or ten years ago. I have sold one of mine and "replaced" it with an M1A.
NCsmitty
Member
I don't think that I have to remind everyone that the adjustable replacement gas valve for the Garand solves the ammo problem. It would seem to be money well spent.
NCsmitty
NCsmitty
bhk
Member
+1 on the adjustable gas valve!
Hornady makes Garand specific ammunition at $1.75 a round retail!
Federal and Winchester produce Match Grade Garand safe ammunition for a like amount of money.
I shot sixty rounds of the Privi 150 grain in one of my Garands, all I could get when I bought the stuff.
I didn't notice any signs that the cartridges were overpressured for the rifle.
That said, it will take a bit more shooting before I can personally say, go ahead and shoot the stuff without an adjustable gas screw.
Federal and Winchester produce Match Grade Garand safe ammunition for a like amount of money.
I shot sixty rounds of the Privi 150 grain in one of my Garands, all I could get when I bought the stuff.
I didn't notice any signs that the cartridges were overpressured for the rifle.
That said, it will take a bit more shooting before I can personally say, go ahead and shoot the stuff without an adjustable gas screw.
Tim the student
Member
I wouldn't shoot it without an adjustable gas plug.
I never shoot commercial ammo in my Garand...just stuff I load myself. That way I always know I'm not risking bending an op-rod.
On the other hand, I have read many accounts of people using nothing but commercial ammo with the as-issued gas plug, and never having a problem.
Go figure!
On the other hand, I have read many accounts of people using nothing but commercial ammo with the as-issued gas plug, and never having a problem.
Go figure!
Tim the student
Member
I'm always curious how much they actually shoot though. I have a feeling it may only be two hundred rounds a year. I'm sure my memory is flawed, but it sure seems like I normally only read that they do it, not a quantity.
I have shot commercial Winchester 150 grain PowerPoint ammo for years in my M1 Garands but only for hunting, not for playing around or target shooting.
That said, for the limited amount of shooting I do with the stuff, no damage, seen or unseen has yet occurred to any of three rifles that I use the stuff in.
An occasional box of commercial ammo kept within reason, in example, no hunting loads over 150 grains, no ammo that says "Light Magnum", "Super Killer" or any such nonsense on the packaging ever be fired, you will likely never damage your rifle.
Since M1 rifles were shooting Ball ammo made for use in machineguns without problems for decades, and machinegun ammo is well known to be erratic in velocity and pressure, I highly doubt a few boxes or four of commercial hunting ammo will blow up the average Garand fitted with late issue parts.
Some Garands do fail, so do some Remington 700s and Browning BARs and Winchester Model 70s,,,
That said, for the limited amount of shooting I do with the stuff, no damage, seen or unseen has yet occurred to any of three rifles that I use the stuff in.
An occasional box of commercial ammo kept within reason, in example, no hunting loads over 150 grains, no ammo that says "Light Magnum", "Super Killer" or any such nonsense on the packaging ever be fired, you will likely never damage your rifle.
Since M1 rifles were shooting Ball ammo made for use in machineguns without problems for decades, and machinegun ammo is well known to be erratic in velocity and pressure, I highly doubt a few boxes or four of commercial hunting ammo will blow up the average Garand fitted with late issue parts.
Some Garands do fail, so do some Remington 700s and Browning BARs and Winchester Model 70s,,,
NCsmitty
Member
Even loads that are close to standard ball ammo, can cause undue stress in different areas of the rifle. It may not be readily apparent, but the higher pressures creates a higher velocity of the bolt assy, and the receiver can develop stress fractures and not just bent OP rods.
This information is from postings on The Firing Line site. SlamFire1 contributed his knowledge to the post.
A cracked receiver pic posted, claimed the crack occurred while firing Greek HXP 69 ammo.
IMO, all the more reason to invest in an adjustable gas valve.
NCsmitty
This information is from postings on The Firing Line site. SlamFire1 contributed his knowledge to the post.
A cracked receiver pic posted, claimed the crack occurred while firing Greek HXP 69 ammo.
IMO, all the more reason to invest in an adjustable gas valve.
NCsmitty
Attachments
Last edited:
Col. Plink
Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2009
- Messages
- 1,775
+1 on adjustable gas tube plug. What's not to love? Drop it in and click it once after each shot with whatever ammo until it cycles reliably. Presto!
:banghead: I'm convinced...
... just do not know how to get it!
Midway doesn't export for particular people!
Is there another broker who could sale and send me this product?
NCsmitty
Member
Welcome to THR, Frenchie.
I see the problem. Perhaps you can contact Afy by sending a PM. He lives in France too, and seems to have access to firearm parts and accessories.
Afy has a thread going right now in the handloading section. Go to it and click on his name and you can send a PM (private message) to him and tell him what you need. He's a good guy and might be able to help.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=550206
NCsmitty
Should be a very slow burning rate powder: with 54gr weight could not be a fast one.
risky without adjustable gas plug...
may be risky for the barrel too (plasma effect)
risky without adjustable gas plug...
may be risky for the barrel too (plasma effect)
Does the gas plug improve precision? I do not really understand why? Should be by softening the op-rod movement, but at this moment the bullet is already flying:
Col. Plink
Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2009
- Messages
- 1,775
I can't imagine they do, but I could be wrong...
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
