Quality control

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know this will bring out numerous opinions, but I would like your input on why you think quality control has suffered in the firearms manufacturing industry of late.
Seems like your making some assumptions there. I don't think quality control has suffered at all, and I don't remember mentioning it. Would you mind offering some evidence where I (or any of us) have asserted that quality control has suffered?

What you have asked is called a loaded question.
 
Larry-The assumption is that there IS a problem with QC in a lot of companies. I shoot alot. I shoot alot with my friends and we have an array of different firearms and have had many over the years. I have seen a pattern with some companies that lean towards their Almighty Bottom Line. I work just as hard for my money now as I did 20 years ago and if I have a problem with a product , they will know about it. If I get a good product, they will also know about it. I am not influenced to buy or not to buy by posts and threads, I make up my own mind. If I get a lemon, I'll check to see if others had issues and go from there. I won't buy certain brands ONLY because I have had a PERSONAL experiance with it. I don't expect you to agree with the topic if you have had good products.
 
i noticed a decrease in QC during the recent obama panic buying frenzy. obviously, that's from manufacturers pumping out as many guns as they could to meet demand.

i totally agree with the OP, all manufacturers have suffered QC issues. i've had to send in most of my guns i purchased recently at least twice.

noticed ammo QC suffered a little too.




What you have asked is called a loaded question.

so, you miss the multitude of threads on this issue in the least 2 years? :eek:
 
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I don't understand how people are getting lemon guns. Do they not research before they buy? Do they not inspect the firearm before they buy? Do they not shoot it before they buy?

fireman5069 said:
If I get a lemon, I'll check to see if others had issues and go from there.

That is backwards.

Full Metal Jacket said:
i've had to send in most of my guns i purchased recently at least twice.

!!!!!!!!
 
I don't understand how people are getting lemon guns. seriously?

Do they not research before they buy? Do they not inspect the firearm before they buy? this can only reveal so much.

Do they not shoot it before they buy? let us know where this magical shop that lets you shoot a new gun before you buy it is located plz


........
 
Full Metal Jacket said:
seriously?

Yep, that's why I wrote it.

Full Metal Jacket said:
this can only reveal so much.

It's all part of a picture.

Full Metal Jacket said:
let us know where this magical shop that lets you shoot a new gun before you buy it is located plz

Doug's Shoot N Sports (SLC Utah)

Get Some (SLC Utah)

I'll admit I bought an STI Spartan without shooting it, but I gave it a thorough inspection before I plunked my money down. BTW, that seems to work pretty well at most gun shops with ranges. Show 'em a wad of cash and I'll bet they'll let you shoot pretty much anything they have.

Look, I'm sorry you've had to send back most of your guns at least twice but your experience may be one extreme and mine the other. In the middle is most everyone else, and that would make it the same as it ever was.
 
This whole statement just reeks of wailing for a "better time" ... read "a time where I wasn't as cynical."
I don't think Corporate Greed has become any more or less than before, I don't think guns are made by people more or less experienced or anything like that. While those two are the factors that make us all sometimes buy lemons, along with a beautiful helping of Cpt. Murphy and the simple fact that all machinery breaks.

But to say that some random time back the ENTIRE FIELD OF FIREARMS PRODUCTION was somehow magically better is just wailing for a time where one wasn't able to see the difference.
 
Some folks say Corporate Greed like that is a bad thing. That's what being in business is all about, how can I get the best return on my money?

Unless you run a charity or a govt agency profit is what you strive for and the better return on your time and money the better you are doing.

All of the goals of a for profit business are usually aimed at how to make the most bucks from this business. If you want to be in business for a bit of time and would like to have repeat customers then quality of what you are shipping needs to be considered. The costs of that quality needs to be carefully calculated including the cost during product development, the cost of quality during production and the warranty costs.

Where do you want to do your quality control? In the field or in the factory?
 
SuperNaut- The area I live in does not have a place to shoot on site before buying.I wish it did and consider yourself lucky to have that. C96- Standing in front of a goon is not the time to be doing "beta testing " for the company for them to save a few bucks. Let some flaw that the company let through cost me my life and it will become known as "My Wife's Firearm Co."
 
"Fit and Finish is what most people who are used to the guns a few decades ago expect....gorgeous finishes, manufacturing tolerances so close you'd think it was a single piece, amazing wood selection, etc."

Well first, the good trees have mostly been cut down. You might as well try to find enough live chestnut to build a split rail fence and a barn.

What are you thinking of, Registered Magnums and Pythons? National Match .45s from before WWII?

A few decades ago S&W and Colt really made some crap. We're talking the '70s and '80s, right? I know the major makers made some junk in the '60s - think about Winchester's post-1964 fiascos when they redesigned everything. Maybe it worked, but it was an ugly and cheap move.

I've been shooting since the '50s and they made plenty of trash back then too. You simply cannot focus on the best of the best and ignore the millions of H&R guns, the millions of Iver Johnson guns and the long guns made by Crescent for just about every hardware store in the country. My father had one, an Essex 16 ga. SxS, back before WWII and it was shot loose in the matter of a handful of years (5 I think, but I could ask him if it matters, he's still alive) and sold off for next to nothing by his brother after WWII started.

The beautiful old guns that we see today are just the suvivors. In 50 or 100 years they'll be talking about guns from Brown, Wilson, USFA and all the expensive favorites from the custom builders.
 
Full Metal Jacket said:
let us know where this magical shop that lets you shoot a new gun before you buy it is located plz



Doug's Shoot N Sports (SLC Utah)

Get Some (SLC Utah)

Do those shops let you test fire the exact gun you are going to purchase? Or do they let use shoot the same model? Just because you shoot a Glock 17 (for example) does not mean you know how the Glock 17 you just bought will shoot. This is a big part of QC: minimize the variance between individual items produced with the same manufacturing process. Good QC would dictate that other guns in the same manufacturing line will be just as good while bad QC would leave me wondering if that was true. Regardless, there will be a lemon in every line no matter how good the QC is and no matter how many guns of the same model you shoot, you’ll never know if you are the unlucky one who got it until that specific one is fired.
 
TBH, I'm not sure if it is store policy to allow people to shoot the guns they want to purchase. I only know that I was allowed to shoot the guns before I purchased.
 
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Full Metal Jacket said:
glad to hear one of us thinks so.

I understand and sympathize that your many defective guns cause you much consternation. I sincerely hope that the various manufacturers attend to your issues with speed and concern.
 
today's buyers are used to getting chinese crap cheap, and don't want to pay much for quality. as a result, modern handguns tend to be crude in fit/finish/function if not made of plastic. even with investment casting a now accepted practice, decent machining finish just can't be paid for by a vendor who sells his guns at a price that competes in the market. market forces at their worst.

look at the remington 51 series. a gun of advanced design and intensive machining that could not be sold at a profit when competing with the run of the mnill crap that was "good enuf". what if the remington 52 (51 design in 45 ACP) had ever been made in numbers? now that would have been a hummer.
 
Two words....Corporate and Greed!

When is enough money, enough?

Yep, because making money is an evil thing to do, especially for all those union pension plans that hold stock and are relying on that for their members. :rolleyes:

Reality is, as I mentioned earlier, is the current public not wanting to spend anything for quality - they want the purchase price to be as low as possible - companies have responded by cutting every corner they can to meet the demands of the public - when that happens, things can go awry. Is it any worse than years ago? I don't think so, at least not as a percentage of items sold - we just have instant worldwide communication now so more folks can complain
 
It is the liberal attempt to ban guns by undermineing EVIL MONEY MAKING gun manufacturers so they go out of business WHEN THEY MAKE NO PROFIT. Obama has not been effective in the gun banners cause.
In a socolist societs there are no coorperations.
GUNS ARE MUCH MORE RELIABLE OUT OF THE BOX THAN THEY WERE IN THE 1970'S AND 1980'S.
 
Just knowing what I know about manufacturing methods and trends, I'd expect that guns today are better and cheaper than ever, and the difference in perception, if there even is one, comes from the echo chamber we call modern communications/the internet.
 
How have you developed the opinion that quality control is less now then before? Before what?
Years ago....
Are you talking 20 years ago or 100 or more?

The guns that I've purchased recently like low to medium priced Savages, Remingtons and rugers have performed flawlessly and are very accurate. There have been absolutely no problems.

We now pay way, way less - comparatively speaking - for a firearm than our fathers or grandfathers did. That's because mass-productions saves lots of manufacturing costs and makes guns more uniform for parts portability.

If you want a top notch, engraved, trued rifle with exotic wood like a very few 1800's and early 1900's rifles and shotguns.... you can still buy them but they'll set you back several thousand. That could be 1 - 2 months of modern wages just like $500 was several months worth of wages back when.
 
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