Question: .45ACP, .45 Colt, Moonclips

[Nightcrawler]

Some .45 Colt revolvers can have their cylinders modified to accept moonclipped .45ACP ammunition. Wild West Guns does this to Ruger Super Rehawks (.454), for example.

Other .45 Colt revolvers can have a second cylinder in .45ACP fitted. I've heard people have done this with their M25s.

So here's my question. On a revolver that can be modified to accept .45ACP on moonclips, without requiring a second cylinder, could you then fire .45 Auto Rim without moonclips? Perhaps you could do this without modifying the revolver?

(I'm not going to try it in my beloved M25-5, but I'm curious.)

 

[J Miller]

Nightcrawler,

Honestly I don't know squat about guns modified to use moon clips.
And I can't see the reason to do this. Especially revolvers that use rimed cartridges.

~But~

DA revolvers that were originally chambered for .45ACP rounds and half moon clips will all accept the .45 AR cartridge.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"So here's my question. On a revolver that can be modified to accept .45ACP on moonclips, without requiring a second cylinder, could you then fire .45 Auto Rim without moonclips"

If I'm following your question correctly, the answer would be yes, as the modification to allow clipped ammo should give plenty of room for the .45 Auto Rim's rim to fit in the cylinder.

The .45 Auto Rim cartridge was designed to be used in guns, such as the S&W and Colt Model 1917s, that were originally fed with clipped .45 ACP ammo.

I have a 1917 that I regularly feed with either clipped .45 ACP ammo OR .45 Auto Rim ammo.

 

[Tamara]

Perhaps you could do this without modifying the revolver?

Not without modifying the gun; .45 Auto Rim has a much thicker rim than .45 Colt.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Not without modifying the gun; .45 Auto Rim has a much thicker rim than .45 Colt.

Ah, okay, I see. Thanks!

 

[Jim K]

A gun chambered for .45 Colt or .455 Webley cannot be used with .45 ACP and moon clips or with .45 Auto Rim without cutting down the back of the cylinder. But this is a one-way process. Once the cylinder has been altered for the .45ACP/.45AR, the .45 Colt cannot be used in it as the headspace is excessive.

Of course, if extra cylinders are available, one can be in .45 Colt and the other in .45 ACP/.45AR. But the use of .45ACP with moon clips applies only to swingout cylinder or top break revolvers. Single action revolvers, like the Ruger .45 convertible, have cylinders for the .45 Colt and for .45 ACP, but the latter cannot use moon clips.

Jim

 

[Wildalaska]

Hi Jim if you cut a 45 colt cylinder for 45 acp in moonclips, you can still shoot 45 colt without them...

WildconfusedAlaska

 

[Mannlicher]

Nightcrawler,

Yes, you can shoot .45 AutoRim in a cylinder made to shoot .45ACP rounds with full or half moon clips. You can also slip a .45 Colt round in the cylinder IF the cylinder was made from a .45 Colt cylinder. You risk misfires due to their being more clearence between the primer and the hammer (of firing pin, depending on whether or not there is a transfer bar, floating firing pin ).

I had my Gunsmith some time back, make an extra cylinder for my 25-5, that was chambered in .45 Colt. He used an spare .45 colt cylinder, and milled off the rear of the cylinder. This has worked wonderfully for me, and the revolver is just as accurate with the .45ACP cylinder as it is with the .45 Colt one.

Obviously, you cannot do this conversion from the other angle, ie, making a .45 Colt cylinder to fit a Model 25 that was chambered in .45 ACP first. The cylinder is much shorter, due to the setback of the barrel.

 

[Tamara]

Wildalaska,

Hi Jim if you cut a 45 colt cylinder for 45 acp in moonclips, you can still shoot 45 colt without them...

What would the cartridges headspace on?

 

[Mike Irwin]

There's also another option...

Using .45 Auto Rim brass to form .455 Webley brass.

It requires turning the face of the rim (not the backside!) to the proper thickness.

Time consuming, and a pain in the butt, but an option.

 

[BluesBear]

.45 Colt fired in a faced off ACP cylinder?

Let's make a list of POSSIBLE things that can go wrong shall we?


Misfire due to inability of firing pin to reach the primer.


Primer setback will occasionally only lock up the cylinder preventing successive shots and/or imparing the ability to open the cylinder.


Pierced primer allowing gases to escape rearward into the firing pin channel pushing the firing pin/hammer rearward and venting said gasses in the direction of the shooters face.


Hangfire (always fun) aka Delayed Detonation, due to inability of firing pin to reach the primer and possibly going off after the cylinger has turned for the next shot. Do we even need to discuss the effects of a .454 bullet striking the edge of the frame window?


Cartridge rupture caused by unsupported case head at time of ignition possible causing excess pressure to vent itself outward.



There may be more, but I have already convinced myself that it's something I'd really try hard to avoid.

Excessive headroom = good in a motor vehicle.
Excessive headspace = BAD in a firearm.


Just my tuppence, YMMV.

 

[Nightcrawler]

All I asked was if it was possible to fire .45 Auto Rim in a .45 Colt revolver that had the cylinder modified to accept moonclipped .45ACP. I didn't say anything about trying to stuff a .45 Colt round into a .45ACP revolver or anything like that.

 

[Wildalaska]

What would the cartridges headspace on?

The way the machining is done, the entire case head is supported except for one small area, the extrator star is also machined down...

Clips are at the most .024 thick I think..in order to use 45acp in a 45 colt we use even a thinner clip..

My personal 44mag Mountain Gun is moon clipped and I shoot heavy loads both with and without the clip...

I dont think I have any photos, but will look...

WilditworkswellAlaska

 

[Tamara]

Wildalaska,

Oh, okay, so it's done like the cylinder on my 627; headspaces on a tiny part of the rim. Means you can't use half-moons or .45 Auto Rim, but .45 Colt and .45 ACP in full moons are peachy, right?

 

[Wildalaska]

Correct it headspaces on about 1/6 of the rim...here is a pic showing the area, the cartridgfe is not fully seated of course, sorry about my poor photo...

WildthenmetalAlaska