question about 38 special

[army_husbandky]

been experimenting with 38 special rounds trying to get an accurate load for a taurus m85 ultralite 2" snub nose. best i have gotten is a 1 1/2 inch group at around 10 yards with 5.8 gr of alliant power pistol with 125 gr HP.

heres the question, been reading up on rifle reloading (going to be starting .223 reloading hopefully soon) and I read somewhere that depending on the type of crimp and how much the round is crimped effects the pressure of the round. if this is true with rifle rounds, would i get the same effect with 38 special?

I've been using 5.8 gr of alliant power pistol, when I can find it will try new powders, but I have tried blue dot, bullseye, 700-x, and aa no 5. any powders out there I should try next to get tighter groupings at greater distance?

I know that nothing is impossible, but my overall effect is tight group at 25 yards. is that asking to much from a snub nose? I don't know, first snub nose I have ever owned and just trying to get best performance out of it as possible.

 

[loadedround]

Yes the amount of crimp can affect the pressure of the fired cartridge. The more crimp, the greater the pressure and also the greater velocity in most normal circumstances.

 

[The Bushmaster]

But...Be careful not to over crimp...A good uniform firm crimp is all that is necessary. Over crimping can damage the brass (over working), deform the bullet and possibly loosen the bullet to case tension...

 

[rcmodel]

+1
A consistent crimp on every round is far more importent to accuracy then how much you crimp.

I don't feel a heavy crimp is necessary with most of the fast powders you are working with.

It is more critical with slower Magnum pistol powders that are harder to light off.

The best way to get consistency is to trim all your cases to the same exact length.

rc

 

[Walkalong]

The best way to get consistency is to trim all your cases to the same exact length

+ 1 on that, despite that one can get away with not trimming.

 

[Randy1911]

best i have gotten is a 1 1/2 inch group at around 10 yards

With a 2" barrel I would be very happy with that. A snubbie is hard to shoot accurately.

 

[Maj Dad]

Faster Powders

In a snubbie, the faster/fastest powders tend to do better: Bullseye, 231, AA #2/#2 Imp etc. My shorties love Bullseye, but there are plenty of quickies to try. 231 is probably my 1st choice, unless it's Bullseye; I have extreme ambivalence when it comes to these two superstars...
P.S. 1 1/2" groups at 10 yds in a snubbie is lethal.

 

[armoredman]

Darn good - best with my UltraLite has been about a 3 incher at 7 yards, standing. That was with a light load of #2 under a 124gr LRN.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

As for powders, I like W231, HS-6 and AA#5 best in the .38 Special and .38 Special +p.

IMO Blue Dot is too slow a powder for the .38 Special.

As for tightening the groups at greater distances, if a round is accurate @ 10 yards but not accurate @ 15 yards I would take a look at the shooter, not the ammo.

 

[Radaray]

I would agree with ArchAngels post as to Blue Dot being too slow in .38Spl, especially with the 125 gr. bullet. Blue Dot seems to work best in the magnums with the heavier bullets. Also, I agree with HS-6 being a good choice in the 38 with the 125 grainer. And those groups at 10 yards are ok in my book out of the 2" tube. I have a Taurus 605 and I'd have no problem with those groups. And if they open up significantly at 15 or 25 yards, that's probably due to the shooter/eyes more so than the load.

I have some excellent .38 Spl loads in my snubbie using Remington's 125 grain GS bullet with SR-4756 powder that produce velocities that slightly exceed Remington's .357 Mag. factory loads. They are hot and accurate, but I will not publish them here, as I have never fired them in a gun chambered for .38 spl. They were developed with Remington's 125gr JHP many years ago and adapted to the newer GS bullet. I feel they are safe in my gun, and exhibit no signs of excessive pressure.

There are tons and tons of good loads for the 38. For lots of plinking fun, try loading about 4.0 grains of Bullseye or 231 under a 158gr lead SWC. Lots of cheap practice, and not bad for close defensive work from your snubbie, either.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You will hear, "The best powder for the .38 Special is W231/HP-38, no it's Bullseye, no it's Unique, of Red Dot, or Green Dot, or AA#2, or AA#5, or Trail Boss, or 700-X, or PB, or Clays...." and the list goes on and you know what, they are all right. For the most part all those powders will do a good job in a .38 Special but for different shooters and guns, some will be better than others. I've found most reloaders usually pick a powder company and learn about their powder and use them. Other times reloaders will use the powders their Father and Grandfather used. Sometimes you will use a powder that's almost ideal but because you want to use only a few powders for all your reloading needs you make a compromise. All good reasons and like I said, they will all work. Burn rate is what you should look out for. Handgun powders like rifle powders will range in relative burn rate and the proper burn rate is important. It's not everything especially in bottle neck rifle rounds but it's a major factor especially in straight wall pistol rounds. Of course just because it looks perfect on paper doesn't mean it will produce accurate ammo.

Read what you can from books and other reliable sources about powders and accuracy. Most .38 Special target rounds will thrive on fast burning powders. (W231, Bullseye, Red Dot & AA#2) Defensive .38 Special +P rounds will want a slower powder. (HS-6, Unique, AA#5 & Longshot) When you move up to Magnum pressures only the slowest handgun powders will deliver the top velocities without pushing the pressures over the limit. (2400, W296/H110, AA#9, Lil'Gun & 4227)

There are so many good powders on the market today it's almost too many. (remember, I said almost) They are all quality powders and all have their place on the reloading bench. Sorry for the long winded post, I started to type and it just kept coming....

 

[The Bushmaster]

That's because .38 Special and .45 ACP are the most forgiving cartridges out there because of their low operating pressure...

W-231 is my favorite go to powder, but I do keep WSF and AA #7 for my .45 ACPs.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

That's because .38 Special and .45 ACP are the most forgiving cartridges out there because of their low operating pressure...

W-231 is my favorite go to powder, but I do keep WSF and AA #7 for my .45 ACPs.

I agree but I favor W231 for both the .38 Special and .45 Auto. For the hotter stuff in the .45 I like AA#5.

 

[rfwobbly]

Oh come on guys, you know you love N320 !!

 

[1858rem]

Yes the amount of crimp can affect the pressure of the fired cartridge. The more crimp, the greater the pressure and also the greater velocity in most normal circumstances.

how much velocity? for example........45 acp?

 

[Walkalong]

Very little (a few FPS) in .45 ACP. It needs just a little bit of crimp. You should not be crimping any more than that.

In .38 Spl, .357, .44 Spl, .44 mag etc it can make 100 FPS difference fairly easily.

 

[MikeS.]

Another fan of Bullseye. I use it in .380, .38spl, 9mm, lite .357magnum loads. I've been using 4.0 grains of it in .357 cases with a 158 grain LSWC

 

[Mark whiz]

I usually shoot the heavier 158gr bullets out of my .38s and 357s, but here are a couple of Loads for my 2" Rossi that have given me slightly less than 1.5 inch groups in the 10 to 15 yard range:

158gr Ranier plated flat nose - 3.4gr Win 231........ a .875 inch group
158gr LSWC - 3.2gr Red Dot ............... a 1.30 inch group
145gr Win Silvertip HP - 4.0gr Win 231 ......... a 13/16 inch group

 

[army_husbandky]

lots of great info guys, sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread I started, had to move to different quarters. as far as the crimp I good good info there, will definantly try different crimps, also I plan on purchasing other powders in the future to try out, see if I can get them loads alittle tighter. again, thanks everyone

 

[Grimmy]

I use N310 just like I would Bullseye powder. I'm loading for a S&W 52-1 and I think V.V. never considered this in their reloading manual. But a tech support guy at Sierra Bullets put me onto this and I have been using it for about 8 to 10 years now with great results.