Question about Tracer rounds

[loki.fish]

I've been told by a co-worker that shooting tracers will damage your barrel a helluva lot faster than shooting regular ammo. But after seeing a few videos and pics of tracers being shot....it looks as though they don't ignite, or whatever they do, until they leave the barrel. This leaves me pretty stumped. Do tracers really reduce you barrel life or is it like shooting regular ball ammo?

 

[GRIZ22]

Tracers ignite after they have left the barrel. They don't do any more damage to the barrel than ball ammo. No special cleaning procedures are required unless they are shot with corrosive primers.

You need to take care where you shoot these as they easily start fires. Tracers have a way of finding something that will burn when they are fired. Nearly every trip to the M60 range was interrupted by cease fires for Range Control to run downrange and put out the fire. This is why most ranges prohibit their use.

Check your state laws as tracers are illegal in some states.

 

[loki.fish]

Well, now I know shooting them won't harm the barrel anymore than regular ammo. Now I just gotta find somewhere that's not a forest fire waiting to happen to shoot some off.

 

[BruceB]

As the barrel gets progressively hotter, tracers start igniting sooner and sooner. Many videos and films will in fact show tracers already burning as they leave the muzzle. Of course, this usually involves full-auto fire, but i dare say that a fast trigger finger could also see them burning at thje muzzle of a semi-auto, as well.

Take a look at Dillon's "Machine Gun Magic" video for some obvious examples.

During my service in the Canadian Army, we were told that tracer ammo WAS hard on barrels, and not to use more than one-in-three or -four with the others being normal ball ammuntion.

 

[Duckster]

Tracers do damage barrels!!!!!!

Not all barrels are designed for tracer fire, i.e. the Barret Sniper Rifle. It will shoot just fine using ball .50 Cal rounds, but tracers are not allowed , because it will damage the barrel that is not designed for them. As for machine guns, there is a reason every fourth round is a tracer. Running straight tracers would burn the barrel up in no time on automatic fire. I've seen first hand an M16 Barrel destroyed by shooting straight tracers. There is a special metal in the lining of Fifty Cal HB Barrels to keep them from over heating. They are the only barrels I know that won't over heat. Tracers have Magnesium which burns very hot, trust me they are burning inside the barrel. It just takes your eyes a secound to recognize it going down range. For those few whom been on the two way firing range. Know this for a fact.
Tracer rounds are still available. I was given a few boxes from an a someone I meet on the range in 30-06, but since the were so old they did not work. It is possible to buy the magnesium projectile, but you must load them yourselves. I'm sure there is someone somewhere sellling them as a complete round just check the box.
Be careful. I can't tell you how many fire we started out on the firing ranges using tracers. Which is okay, they are designated for that and have prequations in place for these incidents. In your local woods would be a bad place and only give firearms owners more of a bad wrap. Please be careful.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Nice to try after a few good days of rain.

They won't really hurt anything, and are fun----as a once-in-a-while thing.
It depends too on the weapon and the tracers. If you have a mil-surp or modern chrome lined gun--fine. I wouldn't feed anything needlessly through a very refined target or match-grade barrel. I've shot tracers though my mini-14 and my M-1---maybe a dozen in as many years.


Now, along other specialized lines, AP rounds WILL damage your barrel over time. I know that wasn't the issue today---but one always follows the other it seems. The hard core doesn't yield in the bore and damage results.

 

[SDC]

The tracer compound starts burning inside the bore, but you may or may not see it right away, because most modern tracers have a trace delay built into them; either a thin metal cup that is progressively burnt away by the burning tracer (as in the below picture), or a purposely-mixed "dim trace" compound (the "starlight tracers" used for night operations are filled exclusively with this "dim trace" compound, because they're still bright enough that they're seen with night vision equipment, and using a regular tracer would "bloom out" the night vision electronics).

 

[GRIZ22]

SDC & Neo. thanx for coming to my defense before I got back to my computer. I have a few things to add.

The "tracers ruin barrels" myth has been around longer than the "5.56 was adopted to wound not to kill" myth. I meant to say tracers aren't fully burning in the barrel so my poor proofreading means I'm wrong on that part in my original post. I heard the tracer ruins barrel story in 1967 when I went on active duty. I'm still in the Reserves and I've yet to see a Field or Technical manual that tells you to restrict the firing of tracers because they ruin barrels. If they did the Army would tell you.

SDC provided the cross section of tracer and you can see the trace compund is in the base of the projectile. If it never contacts the rifling how could it damage the barrel? Magnesium may be used in part of tracer compounds but different compounds are used to get different color tracers. If the tracer compund was hot enough to damage the barrel it would be more than hot enough to just melt the lead and jacket material in the projectile. It would them probably fall to the ground in a short distance. Tracer burnout in standard 7.62 NATO is 800 meters.

The reason for 1 tracer and 4 ball being used as a standard is that the tracer, being lighter, doesn't have as good terminal performance on targets as ball unless you are shooting at a gas tank. Belts of tracer only 7.62 NATO are still in the inventory (don't have the DODAC line number at hand). We used these to mark targets in Vietnam and they would probably good to shoot at a gas tanker for results.

I wouldn't shoot them in match grade barrels as Neo-Luddite said. AP rounds will wear out a barrel fast as evidenced by a lot of the Garands used in the Korean War where AP ammo was used by a lot of soldiers and marines thinking it was better than ball for general purpose.

Rapid fire, of any type of ammo destroys the rifling at the throat of a barrel more than anything else. You can rapid fire anything semi-auto enough to wear the throat out. Just takes you longer than full auto.

 

[James T Thomas]

"Vulcan Machineguns"

Not an answer to your question, however, you may find it interesting.

I had several occasions, years ago, during my military service, to witness the modern version of the Gattling gun being fired from an overhead aircraft at night.

I believe it was every sixth round was a tracer. This was 30 cal. The altitude was several thousand feet. An electric motor was used to rotate the barrel, and the entire interior of the cargo bay was full of ammunition.
If I can remember correctly the rate of fire was 6000 rounds per minute. The fire was adjusted by observers on the ground.

Even with intermittant rounds being the tracer, the stream of bullets looked like a water stream; red however. It would waver just like water, and I dreaded being any live thing underneath that hail storm. I believe the dispersion was one round striking the ground for every square foot of area.
This was used only on confirmation of troop formations active and above ground because of the expense of all that ammo. The entire supply could be used in a matter of minutes. There was a military jargon name for these, but I'm forgetting what it was. However, if you were out there being over run, boy, were those cannons comforting when they turned them on.

The sound was a strange one. Perhaps similar to dozens of trucks "J braking" if you are familiar with that.

Perhaps some military vets could answer your question as to the wear rate for these barrels. Though I would suppose they did not have to maintain the accuracy required of a land based gun.

 

[pacodelahoya]

Puff the magic dragon?

 

[James T Thomas]

awesome

"Puff the Magic Dragon" it was: C-130, C-119, or may have been even some of the old Douglas D2's.

Thanks. I forgot to take my memory pill this morning.

 

[JesseL]

According to Wikipedia, Puff was an AC-47 "Spooky", a variation of the C-47 "Skytrain" which was the military variation of the Douglas DC-3.

 

[MudPuppy]

I could be mis-remembering after 20 years, but I recall that NATO rounds started the "burn" (visible, as mentioned earlier) 10 feet (or meters) out the muzzle. The combloc stuff didn't have that delay.

Can anyone more smarterer than I confirm that this was/is the case with surplus commie stuff?

Oh, and I recall I have a couple of boxes of 5.56 tracer that appeared to have red plastic (yes plastic) cases...anyone familiar with those?

 

[GRIZ22]

I had several occasions, years ago, during my military service, to witness the modern version of the Gattling gun being fired from an overhead aircraft at night.

James that was what is commonly referred to as a "mini gun". The model number escapes me but the gun fired 7.62 NATO and was built by General Electric. It uses the same type of electric motor mechanism used on the 20 mm Vulcan cannon still used on aircraft. In Vietnam mini guns were mounted on a variety of aircraft, AH1 Cobras, UH1 in the gunship configuration, AC47 (DC3) Spooky gunship had 3 of them, and I believe they were also used on the AC130 gunships. They were eventually replaced by 20mm Vulcans in the AC130s for more firepower. There wasn't a problem adapting the C130 frame to the 20mm recoil as original AC130 had a 105mm howitzer that fired off the rear. There was also a AC119 but I'm not sure what the armament was.

I saw mini guns fire from AH1s and AC47s many times in Vietnam and they were a phenomenal area fire weapon. The tracers do form a straight line (with some wavering) that reminds you of a ray gun. They are loaded the standard 1 tracer and 4 ball. They can be fired at a rate of 4000 or 6000 rpm and I remember them having problems with jamming at the 6000 rpm setting in Vietnam. You describe the sound as dozens of trucks J braking. I describe it as a tremendous squeal.

I can't really say what the wear rate was on these barrels. I spent some time in an Attack Helicopter unit and we had mini-guns mounted on our AH1s. I don't remember the armorers complaining about barrel wear. You have to figure that at the 6000 rpm rate each barrel is only firing 1000 rpm. Higher than an M60. I also remember the barrels were heavier (like a bull barrel) than a M60 barrel.