Question on Neck Sizing

[Skinnedknuckles]

I've just started shooting and reloading .223 Remington. I purchased a little used late 80's Winchester Model 70 from a friend and 150 rounds of Remington UMC 55 gr FMJ to get used to the rifle and yield some "fire formed" brass.

I purchased a Lyman case gauge and just discovered something interesting. I decided to see if the "fire formed" cases would fit the gauge, using some 75 cases I had de-primed and neck sized (Lee dies). Most were once-fired but a few had been reloaded once. Almost all dropped right in the gage. However, there were two small groups that didn't.

One group dropped in the gauge but stopped with about 1/2 the rim protruding. The other group stopped with about 1/2" of the case protruding, as though the case had bulged slightly. I've never noticed any difficulty working the bolt or extracting a case. I didn't test any of these in the rifle before full length re-sizing them (wish I had).

I had believed that "fire forming" would yield extremely uniform cases for reloading. Are my results typical or should I be looking for something not quite right?

 

[Conservidave]

I had believed that "fire forming" would yield extremely uniform cases for reloading

It did make uniform cases to your guns chamber as it should... It could be that its just not to the same spec as the gauge. although 1/2" of the case protruding from the guage seems pretty extreme. Something else may be going on here. Im sure others will weigh in.

 

[billybob44]

GREAT Screen Name....

I retired (8-15-10) from "Turning Wrenches" @ a GM Dealer (40+years) so I can relate

My opinion on your post:
I would say that your Win. may?? have a slightly large chamber. That would answer for the some of the brass that sticks out more in the case gauge. Most likely these loads will fit your rifle fine.
IMO, the difference in the fit, on the same lot of fired brass, would be in the quality control of the UMC brass. I did not see you mention anything about trimming your brass to 1.750"=That could??also come into play of the differences??

I too load .223 for my AR's+bolt guns, and I full length size most of mine to fit both applications. For the precision loads, in my Rem. 700 HB, I neck size from those fired cases in that gun.
I'm not sure of the Lyman case gauge, but I use a Dillon case gauge in my .223+.308's. Wilson case gauge in the others.

The design of these gauges have a two step surface-kind of a "Go-No-Go", or a Min/Max if you will. For my bulk loading I adjust my FL Redding Size die to the middle point of the two steps.

Hope this helps+GOOD LUCK with the "Wrench Turning" HA HA..Bill.

 

[Reloadron]

When it comes to case gauges you may want to give this old thread a read. It becomes important to know what the gauge is telling us. Most gauges do not really look at diameter of a spent case. You can always look up the SAAMI specifications for a case and do some of your own measurements. Using even a simple caliper is a good start. Yoy can always blacken a case (candle, magic marker, sight black or whatever) and after shoving it in the gauge look for scratching where the case met resistance.

Ron

 

[murf]

variations in case wall thickness around its circumference will make the fired case elliptical in shape and may be what you are seeing when you drop them into the case gauge. partial full length resize them and don't worry about it!

murf

 

[joem1945]

After reloading and firing .223 cases the rims will sometimes expand in dia. While they will still chamber and fire, soon they will not fit the shell holder easily. These go to the scrap bucket.

 

[Dave P]

"Most gauges do not really look at diameter of a spent case" Very true.

Turn your cases backwards and see if the case head will fit in the gage. That should tell you if it is a diameter or length issue.

Also check your prepped cases in your chamber - see if any bind up.

 

[Skinnedknuckles]

Thanks for the replies. I just unloaded some more cases from the tumbler and did some more checking.

First, I don't think I mentioned, but the Model 70 slightly distorts the neck of each case as it is ejected. Therefore, I had neck sized all of the cases before checking them in the gauge. I did that again today and still had a few that "stuck" in the gage. Because I thought I just needed to "round up" the necks, I just ran them up in the die and wasn't really pressing hard on the handle. When the first case stuck, I tried to insert the neck in the bottom of the gauge, and it would not go. I re-sized the neck, bearing down on the handle, and then the case plunked into the gauge.

So I think the problem is solved. Since after neck sizing properly they all fit the gauge, I haven't measured any case body diameters.

 

[spitballer]

I seem to recall that when I bought a Wilson chamber-type seater for .223 I had a choice between a die that would fit new cases and a die that would fit fire-formed cases, and I chose the one for the fire-formed cases because I neck-size only. It may be that other manufacturers have similar options, something worth checking into.

 

[JimKirk]

First ... Fireformed brass probably is not going to fit in a case gauge .. it is after all formed to fit your chamber not to fit a case gauge....

Solve your case gauge problem by full length sizing the brass ...then it will fit the case gauge ....

OR ... put the case gauge in the junk drawer and work with your rifle chamber ... that is the gauge that matters after all....

 

[billybob44]

Many options here...

First ... Fireformed brass probably is not going to fit in a case gauge .. it is after all formed to fit your chamber not to fit a case gauge....

^^^Depends if your chamber is SMALLER than the case gauge or NOT??

Solve your case gauge problem by full length sizing the brass ...then it will fit the case gauge ....

^^^This should be done for the most part..

OR ... put the case gauge in the junk drawer and work with your rifle chamber ... that is the gauge that matters after all....

^^^ONLY True if you ONLY load for ONE rifle chamber..

 

[MEHavey]

First ... Fire-formed brass probably is not going to fit in a case gauge .....

^^^^ THIS ^^^^
Gauge`R SAAMI Min
Fired Case... Not.

 

[gamestalker]

What Jim Kirk said, your best gauge is the one that represents the chamber dimensions, that would be the chamber of which you are loading for. I've been reloading for several decades or so, and in all those years I've never once found a use for a gauge, and additionally relevant, I've yet to experience a situation in which my ammo didn't chamber, fire, and extract properly.

I have neck dies, and I have FL dies. I've loaded brass using neck dies, and at some point in time, either the body will reach a dimension that won't allow the brass to fit the chamber, the shoulders will get pushed up and eventually need bumping, thus the brass will no longer fit the chamber, or the wed will get pushed out, thus the brass will no longer fit the chamber.

A FL die will almost always address the shoulder and body issues, however. when the web gets pushed out, the brass is pretty much toast unless you have a die that will size far enough down to reach.

GS