Questions about custom work on a revolver

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chaim

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OK, it is looking a bit more likely that I might be going to graduate school in a carry state next year so I've been thinking a bit more about what I'll want to do for a carry gun. While I do plan to have an auto for that role as well, I primarily want a somewhat customized revolver as the primary gun for that role.

I have a variety of questions. How long can I expect some of the major players to take to get the work done (Teddy Jacobson, Cylinder and Slide, S&W Performance Center)? How do these three compare for quality? Since S&W doesn't have their prices listed (at least I didn't see it) unlike the others, how do their prices compare? Also, for those in CCW states who may have some experience carrying a revolver what do you think of my intended carry gun/modifications (should I add/delete anything)?

OK, what I want:

I have decided for sure that I want a RB 3" K-frame (I'd also consider the equivelent Taurus but only one of the three shops work on Taurus so I'll probably go S&W) in either .38 or .357mag (I will probably load it primarily in +P so a magnum for a carry gun won't be needed for me, though I will consider one simply for the extra versatility). I love the feel and balance of my 65LS and the 3" barrel gives enough sight radius for accuracy while the size would be very easy and handy for carry. I may buy another 65LS (my current one being my first .357mag will be left as is), but more likely I'll try to pick up a nice used deal in a 3" K-frame (no real preference for stainless or blued or .38 or .357- stainless is more corrosion/rust resistant but blued is less flashy and darker/easier to hide in some ways; I will mostly use +Ps and occasional .38spl but rarely if ever .357mag for carry so a .38 would be fine if that is the best deal though I wouldn't mind the versatility of the mag should I change my mind). Essentially if I go used I want to keep my options open so I can simply look for the best overall deal (why pass on a perfect and inexpensive 64 because it is stainless or .38 and wait for a more expensive and maybe more worn 13). One big plus for the .38 is it is cheaper and a well shopped deal on a used 3" M10 or M64 plus the work wouldn't be much more (if it was more at all) than a new stock 65LS.

OK, here is how I want it set up:

Definate:
-already mentioned a RB 3" K-frame .38 or .357
-Secret Service, or similar, wood boot grips
-DAO conversion
-removal of the hammer spur
-trigger job (of course)
-matte/bead blast finish whether stainless or blued (less flashy)

Possible (haven't decided for sure, but likely to go with at least some of these):
-have all edges radiused and beveled
-Chamfered and polished cylinder mouths
-have the backstrap checkered
-have some kind of work done to sights for speed or night visability (have bead, white dot or tritium insert milled into the front sight or even go all out and have three dot setup or tritium three dot setup installed). This one is likely to be put off for later though to keep prices down and because it is the one I am least sure of.

Ok, so again, how long for each of the three major players I mentioned to get this kind of work done? How good are each of them in comparison to the others? How is the S&W Performance Center priced in comparison to the other two? What of the things I want done is overkill or what am I missing that I should strongly consider?

Especially important is input into the two things I'm least sure about. The sight modifications- is it worth the price, I don't mind revolver sights but since I'd be paying for work anyway why not do more visable sights (if so which one is the better way to go) The chamfered and polished cylinder mouths- do they really make that big a difference for extraction and reloading.
 
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i've never had any of the smiths you've mentioned do any work so i can't give an estimate of how long it might take. i've always been lucky enough to have local talent who could handle most of my needs.

the 2 rules with true custom work have always been:
1. send your money, be patient and don't bother them.
2. whatever time they quote you, go ahead and double it.

without refinishing, i would estimate your work taking about 8 weeks.

about the work you are thinking about:
1. chamfering the chambers would help if you are using wadcutters or semi-wadcutters...avoids snagging on the shoulders.
2. remember to have the trigger faced smoothed and rounded.
3. a 24/7 big dot on the front sight should be sufficient.
4. consider stippling or serrations on the backstrap in place of the checkering.
 
without refinishing, i would estimate your work taking about 8 weeks.
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So if I will hopefully be in a carry state for grad school in late Aug or early Sept it would probably be a good idea to buy the gun and do the work ASAP if I want the gun to be ready before then. I shouldn't wait until I have my acceptances and know for sure if I'll be in school in a carry state. Well, actually, that is assuming a state that doesn't have a waiting period after moving in before they'll grant a CCW license (I can't find anything about one in PA, I'll have to check for IN, FL, GA and SC).
 
Teddy Jacobson does OUTSTANDING work, but his turnaround time can be slow, as he's a one-man shop. If you call him personally and ask for a quicker turnaround (offer him a surcharge on his usual fee), he might be able to help.

I've had two guns tuned and reconditioned by the S&W Performance Center (both Model 29-2's). They did a great job on the refinishing, but I wasn't that impressed with their action job - IMHO, Clark (see below) does a better one. Their turnaround time was about 3 weeks for each weapon.

I don't have any personal experience with Cylinder & Slide, but friends who've had guns worked on there speak highly of them.

I've had all my S&W revolvers tuned up by Clark Custom Guns, near Shreveport. They do an absolutely wonderful action job - I've literally been offered blank checks for some of my revolvers after strangers have felt the DA trigger pull! Get their service action job, not the target action job - the latter is so slick and light that it can slip the sear in SA operation, and they don't recommend it for a carry gun. Check them out at http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/. Highly recommended.
 
Teddy Jacobson does great work. A standard action job on two S&W revolvers took about three weeks in my case. You get faster service if you send green cash with the guns.
 
Does anyone have actual weight numbers on the differences between Teddy's service and target trigger jobs? I don't want it too light either, as reliability is job one on a CCW.

I have two revolvers that I am considering lightening up slightly.

-Robert
 
Some options to consider:

Instead of paying to have the hammer altered to DA-only and de-spurred, just buy a DA-only hammer from Gun Parts. It would likely be much cheaper to have a new hammer fitted than an original altered, since there's not that much to dropping in a hammer.

Second, why not check with S&W about having the custom work done?

As for checkering the back strap, the strap is already grooved and it's not too tough to convert it to checkered. The problem with checkering on a revolver, is the tendency to "grab" clothing, causing the gun to print, and it wears both the clothes AND your skin. Many people never think about it, but checkered revolver backstraps act like a good file on skin and shreds clothing in short order.
I once had a gentleman who insisted on checkering on his S&W 60. He was shocked when it absolutely shredded his custom tailored Seville Row suit.

It's possible a "better" option is to either have a light stipple/matting job done, or just stick with the standard grooving.

Given that you're willing to spend some bucks on a defense gun, I'd go with a S&W since they are a known quantity as far as quality goes.

For trigger work, I recommend staying away from lighter trigger pulls. The key to good trigger work isn't lightness as much as it's SMOOTHNESS.
A heavy trigger that's smooth, feels lighter, and is still 100% reliable.
Tests show that a light trigger pull can actually be slower than a standard pull.
A trigger job that smooths out the trigger and slightly lightens it the way to go on a defense revolver.
 
Biggest thing to organize is that 3 inch K frame. I have several friends who want one and the 3 inch RB guns (esp. used) are hard to find around here.
 
BUT WHY???

Why would you want to convert the K-frame to DA only? I strongly urge you to reconsider this part of the program.

The practice is a holdover from the old LAPD solution to having so many officers think to impress a suspect by hauling the hammer back to full stand. There were a series of embarassing incidents, so like many bureauracies, the department altered the gear and not the training.

The reasoning sometimes ran: If LAPD, cutting edge of police technology, did it, it must be GOOD, so we'll do it as well. The copycat outfits usually didn't stop to think that this measure was just an insult to their own training officers and patrol people.

The presence or absence of the full cock notch and sear bump has nothing whatever to do with smoothness of the DA pull. Removal DOES, however, have two downsides: First, it deprives the carrier of the option of EVER making a precision long range shot in single action mode. Admittedly a rare situation, but it CAN come up. Second, if ever one MUST sell the ultra-customized piece, the lack of the SA option is a certain point on which the buyer will try to beat down the price. It could even be a deal killer, with some purchasers.

By all means, have the trigger face polished smooth. Tell the 'smith that action smoothness is far more imortant than lightness of pull, and the hammer fall MUST be strong enough to pop the thickest primer on the market.

Best of luck - -
Johnny
 
Here is what I think is the best, S&W mod 13 3"HB Smooth trigger,
thin hammer, Ajax grips filed and sanded to fit my hand, finished
with one coat of boiled linseed oil. It has a great action cause I dry
fire it a lot. The only thing I would do to it would be to chamfer the
charge holes.
I finally took C.R.Sam's advice fit the grips to your own hand.

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I have had Teddy Jacobson do several guns for me. Call him tell him what you are looking for he will help you. It took him an average of 12 weeks ea for him to get my pistols back but I did not send cash. I also hear green money with the gun speeds things up.

I would highly recomend Actions by T

Mike
 
As of a month ago, the backlog at C&S was four months.

Perfessr: That is one sweet looking revolver!
 
How difficult is it to do a trigger job anyway? The gunsmith at my local gun store does trigger jobs on S&W revolvers, and he's been there for years, so I can't imagine he would be bad.

Is this the type of procedure that needs an "expert"?

-Robert
 
Perfessr:Your a smart man, That is exactly what I have my gunsmith looking for and I too follow CRSams advice on grips. That is a fine fine set-up.

I too am a fan of the K frame 3" RB. I prefer Blue.

The Ladysmith is another if you want steel, easy to remove the Ladysmith if it bugs you. Older is better on these, 3" K frame RB- quality, finish, and triggers, just hard to find since the secret is out.
 
Valnar:

Does action tuning/trigger pull work require an expert? You bet it does, especially if the gun is likely to be used as a personal defense weapon. Over the years I have seen a lot of messed-up handguns that someone with little or no knowledge and/or experience "improved."

Each make and model has certain points that require attention, and certain things that should - or more important - shouldn't be done. In the long run you may end up betting you're life on someone's work or be more lucky and simply have to spend a lot of money undoing what someone else did wrong.

This is not too say that the "gunsmith at my local store" doesn't know what he is doing, and can't turn out first-class work. But if you are not in a position to know, in exact detail, the difference between a good vs. incompetent job it's a good idea to turn to a specialist. The top ones with a reputation are worth what they charge.

Johnny Guest:

Another reason to convert a revolver to D.A.O. is to remove the hammer spur so that it won't snag during a draw from deep cover. And it is quite possible to do acceptable "long-range" shooting in the double-action mode, if you know how.
 
Johnny Guest,

Why would you want to convert the K-frame to DA only?
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For me? Two reasons: I never use the SA trigger anyways; I like shooting double action revolvers double action. Second, it gets rid of that annoying hammer spur, which seems only to exist to snag on stuff since I never use it for anything else. ;)
 
I can see the DAO conversion, especially as I examine how my hammered gun has eaten the heck out of every cover garment I regularly wear.

As for where to get it done, I had a 3" 65 get refinished, chamfered chambers and a trigger job at S/W a couple of years back, could not have been happier with the work or price (thinking it was around $170 for the whole job). Took about 8 weeks.

Was not impressed at all with the last work they did on a couple of my guns recently (especially the trigger job) and won't use them again for any reason. Cylinder and Slide quoted me a 4-6 week turnaround for most work BUT thats after being put on a waiting list to send in for at least 4 months with them holding a 50% deposit...

I'm in kind of a holding pattern at the moment :(
 
Blueduck:

For the time being, consider getting a holster with a hammer protector or shroud. That will save you’re coats (or whatever) from getting torn up.

Numrich Parts Corp. (www.e-gunparts.com) have “K†frame hammers that are modified for double-action only. You can substitute one of those in your gun and keep the original hammer as it is in case you want to switch back.
 
chaim

There were guns made from the factory that fit 99% what you desire. No real need to spend hundred of dollars on making a product that already exist or that would require small modifications to get exactly what you want.

Tamara, show him your PC13.
 
Hmm, this thread was from back in April so a couple things have changed.

I still intend to use a customized K-frame as my primary carry when I get to a carry state. However, my graduate school situation turned out a little different than I thought. I am going to school online so theoretically I can go anywhere, but the school wanted me to start out full-time first session (I have to in order to finish in a certain time period anyway- some courses are only offered once a year) so I am stuck here in MD for a while longer (since I can't work full-time I am stuck living with my parents here in MD).

Money is a little tight (I just bought what will probably be my last two guns purchases of the year, though if I get a buyer on my Colt PPS I'll probably use those funds for a 3" K-frame) but time isn't since I'll probably be here another year. For occasional carry when I'm visiting another state (I'm getting a FL permit, hopefully soon) I'm not as worried about the "perfect" carry gun- my 3" 65LS without customization will be fine and I am getting what fits one of several of my ideas for a "perfect" carry auto soon (recently won an auction online for a S&W 908, one of the "last two" purchases mentioned above). Anyway, when I do get the 3" K-frame that I'm willing to have worked on (unlike my 65LS which, being my first Smith wheelgun and first .357, I'm not willing to have changed) time for the work to be completed won't be a big deal.

I want it changed to DAO for a few reasons. Actually for one reason- one less thing to go wrong. The hammer spur can get caught on clothing or it can wear clothing so I want it removed. I'm not comfortable with the idea of a SA capable revolver without the hammer spur (how in the heck would it be possible to decock it if it somehow got caught on something and got cocked without the spur) so I also want it converted to DAO when the spur is removed. Since I prefer shooting my revolvers DA anyway (I'm actually more accurate that way) and I doubt I'll take the time to cock it in a self defense situation I have no problem not having SA capabilities in a defensive revolver (I really love my Taurus 85CH, it confirmed this for me).

There were guns made from the factory that fit 99% what you desire. No real need to spend hundred of dollars on making a product that already exist or that would require small modifications to get exactly what you want.

Tamara, show him your PC13.
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Funny, that is basically the gun that I had in mind when writing up what I wanted. I love my 3" 65LS, it sold me on the 3" K-frame (I'm not sure there is a gun that balances better). I've wanted a PC13 since I first saw a picture of her gun on The Firingline. Since they don't seem to be too easy to find I figure I'll probably have to essentially have one made (though depending upon what I find in a 3" K-frame it may be a slightly different variation- maybe stainless, maybe .38spl).
 
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