Questions just for our LEO's

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RKBABob

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I know we've discussed what to do if pulled over by the police while legally carrying a firearm before... but I'm going to make this thread a little different, only the police officers on our forum need to answer, though any other members may feel free to ask questions of them as well.

Lets say I went through a stop sign, which I just didn't see. By the time the officer arrives at my window my interior light is on, and my driver's license and concealed weapons permit are in my hands. I hand the officer my permit card, and say "Officer, for your safety as well as my own, I want you to be aware that I am licensed to carry a concealed weapon, and I am wearing a revolver on my right hip... I am bringing this to your attention now because I would not want you to notice it on your own, and become alarmed by its presence."

Now here's my questions... just for LEO's:

1. Does this sound like the ideal way in which you would like a legally armed motorist to handle the situation?

2. How would you respond?

3. Any officers know of an instance where this tactic turned out badly for the CCW'er? (Being forced to "assume the position" on the hood of a police car would be an example)

4. Anyone know of an anti in your department who would probably not handle this situation well? How would you suggest calming such an officer's concerns?

5. Anyone aware of a situation where a motorist was lectured at great length about why he should not be armed? How should the motorist handle such a difference of opinion on the side of the road, other than agreeing to sell the officer his gun on the spot?
 
I prefer that drivers simply hand me both licenses, CHL on top. Drivers sometimes get nervous during LEO encounters even though they really have no reason too. A nervouse driver might truncate a well intended and polite, "I want you to be aware that I am licensed to carry a concealed weapon, and I am wearing a revolver on my right hip... I am bringing this to your attention now because I would not want you to notice it on your own, and become alarmed by its presence" to " I have a gun." That's simply not a good thing to say, even if you intended something much more eloguent. KISS method, keeps misunderstandings down.

How an officer reacts depends on a lot of factors. Rolling a stop sign isn't likely to key up an officer too much. Rolling a stop sign at eighty in a school zone full of children is going to get you a face first meeting with a very hot hood no matter how polite you are to the officer. Also consider time of the stop (mid-day vs midnight), local conditions (in da hood) as well as the number of bystanders. I'd love to give you a formula in which you can do X and the officer will respond with Y, but it doesn't exist.

I'd love to tell you that being a RKBA supporter I've never disarmed a CHL holder during a traffic stop. I'd be lieing to you.

For #5. Yes, I've heard of officers doing such a thing. Your best option, take the verbal tirade of stupidity. There's nothing at the scene you can do to make the situation better, but plenty you can do to make it worse. However, report it afterwards. That officer needs to be reprimanded.
 
Formerly working that field so I'll chime in.

At any stop what I wanted was the following...
-Radio, engine, etc, OFF.
-Emergency flashers ON.
-Window open enough that we can speak.
-Interior light on.
-Sit still with both hands in sight on top of the steering wheel
-Passengers also sitting still with hands in sight.
-The person the officer is talking to replies, everyone else stays quiet.

DO NOT reach for anything (driver's license, permits, registration, etc) until asked for it. The absolute LAST thing I wanted was someone rummaging around in the car as I walked up. Guaranteed to make me nervous back then.

Inform of CCW if required by law OR if you have to move anywhere near your sidearm (say to retrieve your license or registration). In such a case KEEP YOUR HANDS ON THE STEERING WHEEL and say something short and to the point like "officer, I'll have to reach near my sidearm to get that information, how would you like me to proceed" will suffice...don't get all chatty. You appear nervous it made ME nervous.

Once the situation appeared calm and under control then things could relax.

I can remember a couple of times that #3 happened. Mostly a "trusting my instincts" kind of thing. Sorry if that offends but I fully intended to go home intact at the end of my shift so I didn't take chances.

5. Anyone aware of a situation where a motorist was lectured at great length about why he should not be armed? How should the motorist handle such a difference of opinion on the side of the road, other than agreeing to sell the officer his gun on the spot?
Click to expand...

You sit there and take it. Note the name and badge number and file a complaint later. NOBODY WINS AGAINST AN OFFICER ON THE SPOT. You loose your temper and act stupid and you've just justified his prejudice.
 
Drivers sometimes get nervous during LEO encounters even though they really have no reason too.
Click to expand...
I also hear officers say things like "there's no such thing as a 'routine' traffic stop." It would seem that there is a bit of apprehension, and fear of the unknown on both sides. Unlike the police, though, motorists aren't trained or practiced for these encounters, and may feel unusually powerless since they have no control over the situation while stopped.

#5 would really suck :(.
 
ZeSpectre: Put on my flashers? I would have thought that would bother the officer/hinder his ability to see. I guess I'm learning something already!

Turning the engine off certainly shows I have no intention of running. I can see how that would reassure the officer.
 
You know, we even passed a law here saying you had to bump over a lane or reduce speed for emergency vehicles stopped on the road. Didn't help much.
 
I'm not a cop. I just wanted to point something out that many people seem to forget when asking questions like this.

The responses you will get will come from all sorts of different officers, all over the country. Just be aware of that when reading the responses that you get.

For example, I once asked a cop buddy some smart things to do to put the officer at ease and potentially lower my risk of getting a ticket. He gave me a lot of the normal stuff, pull over far enough, interior light, hands on the wheel, etc.. One of the things was to turn off the car and put the keys on the dash. This made sense in a way - makes the cop know that you're not planning on going anywhere, right?

Sure enough, next time I get pulled over, I put my keys up on the dash. Cop is boggled by this and asks me why my keys are on the dash. Basically ended up chuckling over my reasoning and made me feel pretty stupid. I don't do that anymore.

Another one - I always heard you should pull over in a safe area, for the safety of the cop more than yourself (he's the one not in a car, after all). Supposedly they appreciate this. Sure enough, I get pulled over one day on a 4 lane (2 in each direction) with no pull-off/break-down area, just a very large/tall curb (maybe 8 inches tall). So when he lights me up, I drive a VERY short distance (maybe 1/8 mile), with my blinker on, to the next business' driveway so I can pull off the street. Otherwise I would have had to just stop in my lane, it was impossible to actually pull over. Was the cop happy about my attempt to be nice? Nope, he SCREAMED at me. I tried to explain what I was doing, and he told me to always just pull over immediately. If it's unsafe, they will direct you to move. If they don't, it's their problem, not yours. Guess I never thought of it that way.

Long story short, cops are human too and they don't all have the same mindset. Listen to the responses that are posted but be prepared for unexpected situations in reality.

Dope

edit: someone posted the flasher question above, I have always questioned that one myself. It seems to come up a lot but I have never actually seen someone pulled over with their flashers on. Ever.
 
Now Im speaking as a NJ cop. So for one, CCW permits are few and far between. However, IF, I were to stop someone carrying legally, I would do the following.

First off, its just basic courtesy to sit still, hands in plain sight, wait to be spoken too. The officer will always tell you what you did wrong. There is no need for the first words out of your mouth to be "man, what I do?!" Your chances of leaving without a ticket dwindle with every rude comment you give us. Dont lose your cool, dont argue. If you disagree with a summons, you can take it to court. A cop cannot just rip up a ticket and make it go away because you dont believe that you ran the stop sign.

So, if you follow the basic rules of a traffic stop, and inform me that you are carrying legally....I will probably give you a "warning" for the offense and probably make small talk about guns. I have in the past! haha.
 
I'm not a cop, but in Ohio you have a LEGAL DUTY to notify a cop that you are carrying a concealed firearm whenever you are engaged in OFFICIAL BUSINESS with the cop AND you are in POSSESSION of the firearm.

Standing in line at the ice cream stand doesn't count as official business. Being stopped for a [suspected] traffic violation or being questioned officially do.

You do NOT have a legal duty to inform an officer that you have a CCL if you are not carrying or in possession. There is considerable dispute over whether you SHOULD inform. I say obey the law and do NOT.
 
Since almost all cars have electric windows these days and the rear ones are sometimes quite darkly tinted, before the officer walks up, I roll down both driver side windows so he can clearly see in the back seat.

Although I am no longer a LEO, I try to do what I think would have made me more comfortable back when I was one.
 
i don't really have anything to add (i've only ever been pulled over twice, for dead licence plate, on the same night no less!) but i really like this thread and thank you for asking it RKBABob. its important to learn this kind of stuff and they don't exsactly teach it well in drivers ed.
 
In Colorado it's legal to have a handgun in your car for protection with or without a permit. There is no legal requirement to volunteer that information to an officer. Average guy with a gun in the car never bothered me and if I wanted to know if a person was armed I'd ask.

State law also allows officers to disarm those carrying guns (even with a CHP) while he/she conducts business with the person carrying. I recommend to my students now in my CHP classes that they not just volunteer the information because of just how vastly different officer's opinions can be as to how they feel about people with guns. If the officer asks, preface your answer with, "Officer I have a CHP and my gun is located _______." More importantly, just pass the attitude test. Best way to get out of a ticket (with me anyway) was to be polite and honest. Polite + Honest = Warning 99% of the time.
 
"Officer, for your safety as well as my own, I want you to be aware that I am licensed to carry a concealed weapon, and I am wearing a revolver on my right hip... I am bringing this to your attention now because I would not want you to notice it on your own, and become alarmed by its presence."
Click to expand...

No need for the distraction of saying that long drawn out phrase. Simply handing the CHL to the officer says the same thing, and allows him to retain his focus on the matter at hand.
 
I appreciate being informed, but I know when I run your DL. In AR there is no duty to inform, so I just take it in stride. Odds are, if you have a CCW and you''re from the local area, I've probably already met you at a gun store or on a range somewhere.
 
sacp81170a, we aren't required to 'inform', but we are required to hand you the CHL with the DL upon being stopped.

(2) The licensee must carry the license, together with valid
identification, at all times in which the licensee is carrying a concealed
handgun and must display both the license and proper identification upon
demand by a law enforcement officer.
Click to expand...

from AR CHL Law http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IIC1d1.html
 
(2) The licensee must carry the license, together with valid
identification, at all times in which the licensee is carrying a concealed
handgun and must display both the license and proper identification upon
demand by a law enforcement officer.
Click to expand...

but we are required to hand you the CHL with the DL upon being stopped.
Click to expand...

No, you're required to display it "upon demand". We don't know to ask for it until we run your DL, so you don't have to give it to an LEO until he asks. It's nice, it's courteous, but it's not required.
 
First I can understand having the blinkers on. A few yrars back a County Sheriff got rearended during a stop while lit up like a Christmass tree.
My DL and CCW are carried in my wallet so there is no way I will get them out while the officer is walking toward my vehicle. I would have to inform before getting them out because whatever I am carrying it will be in the general area of my wallet. Of course this is only when I am out of state, I live in Illinois. It is allmost 15 years since I have been pulled over for any reason and I drive so that it won't happen. In case it does my response would be, "Officer I have a license to carry a concealed weapon and it is in the area of my wallet, what would you like me to do." Any potential problems? Jim.
 
I'm not an LEO, and I figure my experience is unusual. In WV, we have no duty to inform, but I hand my permit out the window with my license as well. Trooper asked me "why are you giving me that?"

"So if you see the weapon, I don't get shot."

He yelled "AS LONG AS YOU DON'T DO SOMETHING STUPID LIKE PULL A GUN OUT ON ME YOU WON'T GET SHOT!"

I just kind of grinned, shook my head and remained silent.

He wrote me a keeper.

Probably the strangest stop I've ever been involved in. I suppose that's a good thing. I'd sure love to see THAT trooper's response in this thread.
 
Massad Ayoob did a whole segment on Personal Defense TV recently that answers a lot of the questions you're asking.....

Since I'm not a cop I won't comment myself but he suggested that when you hand the officer your drivers license that you also hand over your CCL at the same time.

Having done this myself I can tell you that it worked for me, the officer said thanks walked back to his cruiser and then returned a little while later and handed my id's back and gave me a warning. Can't say that will happen in all cases but that's how it went down for me, no mention was made of the gun at any point. He just handed back my CCL and drivers license and sent me on my way.
 
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