captain obvious
Member
How long can a cap & ball revolver be safely left loaded for (i.e. how long until the powder starts damaging the cylinder and frame)?
Quick Cap & Ball question
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Swamprabbit
Member
I don't think that BP is corrosive. I think it is the salts left over after combustion that corrodes - someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I've known of people leaving BP guns loaded for a long time without corroding, at least from the powder.
Due to the volatile nature of BP, I don't ever leave one loaded for any period of time so I don't have any personal experiences doing so.
Due to the volatile nature of BP, I don't ever leave one loaded for any period of time so I don't have any personal experiences doing so.
Cap n Ball
Member
I keep a Remington .44 in the night stand next to my bed. About every three months or so I take it to the range, shoot it, clean it and reload. It's never failed to fire. It's the residue from the combustion that is corrosive. I've heard of old shotguns that have hung on a mantle for decades loaded that have surprised folks in a most unfortunate way. 
Ruger Redhawk
Member
Someday I'll tell you if it corrodes a gun being loaded for years.I loaded a S/S Ruger Old Army right at 12 years ago.Been loaded ever since.I loaded it up for a Special BP Hunt Nov of 92. Never fired it out.This Ruger is still loaded and capped.I wouldn't hestitate shooting it with the same caps and powder charge.As long as it's kept dry your powder should last indefinately.
Ruger Redhawk
Ruger Redhawk
Tom Doniphon
Member
After Robert E. Lee passed away in 1870, one of his sons took his old navy out and discharged its cylinders. The gun had been loaded since before Appomatox. At least 5 yrs.
oneshooter
Member
When the USS Cairo was salveged in 1969 7 of the 8 cannon on board had powder in them that was still good.She was sunk in 1864!
Oneshooter
Oneshooter
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Gee, I didn't know that. Guess it's time to read Hardluck Ironclad. The ironclad paddlesteamer USS Cairo was sunk by a "torpedo" (we call them mines today) while sailing in support of Sherman's expedition to capture Vicksburg. Porter had to send some man powered cutters ahead of his fleet to sweep the waters of the torpedoes. This slowed down their progress considerably. BTW, Sherman was defeated at Chickasaw Bluffs and Grant would try again and again (and finally captured Vicksburg on July 4, 1863).
Gatofeo
Member
I loaded the cylinder on my Colt 2nd generation 1851 Navy some years ago, when I was living in northern Idaho. Not a humid area, but not a bone-dry one, either.
Anyway, I left the cylinder outdoors for about six months. It was exposed to sub-freezing temperature, then summer heat of 100 degrees or more.
The chambers were loaded with Goex FFFG black powder, a felt wad lubricated with Hodgdon Spit Ball, a .380-inch ball and no grease over the ball. The caps were squeezed into an elliptical shape and pressed onto the nipples. No sealant such as beeswax covered the caps.
In early fall, the revolver was fired. No problems; all chambers fired successfully and I didn't notice any lack of power from powder contamination.
Nor did I note any evidence of rust in the chambers.
Yes, a cap and ball revolver's cylinder may be left loaded for years, decades even. I don't suggest it, however.
Rust can begin in the chamber, since one of the ingredients of black powder is potassium nitrate, also known as saltpetre. This is a salt before and after combustion and will promote rust.
And yes, even stainless steel will rust given enough time and exposure.
About 25 years ago, I had a stainless steel Ruger Security Six that was left in the trunk of my 1973 Duster. The trunk leaked all winter, unknown to me, so that revolver sat in water for months.
When I pulled the revolver out, in the spring, it had a very faint layer of orange rust on one side. The rust wiped off, leaving an even fainter discoloration, but there is no doubt that the revolver rusted.
Stainless steel will rust, just takes a whole lot longer than carbon steel.
Another thing about cap and ball revolvers. The oversized ball forms a tight seal, but the cap has no such advantage. Moisture can work in between the cap and nipple over time, affecting or deadening the load.
The old-timers often worked beeswax or candle wax around the cap on the nipple, to make it somewhat waterproof. Wax was often placed over the ball as well, not for lubrication but for waterproofing.
Some years ago, I recall reading one Union officer who evaded capture by swimming to an island in a river. He found other Union soldiers hiding on the same island, waiting for nightfall to make their escape.
I recall him saying that he had waterproofed his revolver with wax over the balls and caps, and felt confident his revolver would fire. The other Union soldiers with sidearms had not done so, and they felt their revolvers were useless.
They later made their way back to Union lines. Curious, the officer fired his revolver and found that all loads fired perfectly. I don't recall if the others, who did not waterproof their loads, fired theirs.
Anyway, that's pretty effective waterproofing for a cap and ball sixgun to be immersed in water twice, then exposed to a wet holster for hours, and still fire.
I would not leave a cap and ball cylinder loaded for long. I think that with a carbon steel cylinder, rust is invited. Stainless steel may be more resistant but is not foolproof.
Even if the chambers do not rust, moisture can still deaden the load. Never underestimate the power of water.
Anyway, I left the cylinder outdoors for about six months. It was exposed to sub-freezing temperature, then summer heat of 100 degrees or more.
The chambers were loaded with Goex FFFG black powder, a felt wad lubricated with Hodgdon Spit Ball, a .380-inch ball and no grease over the ball. The caps were squeezed into an elliptical shape and pressed onto the nipples. No sealant such as beeswax covered the caps.
In early fall, the revolver was fired. No problems; all chambers fired successfully and I didn't notice any lack of power from powder contamination.
Nor did I note any evidence of rust in the chambers.
Yes, a cap and ball revolver's cylinder may be left loaded for years, decades even. I don't suggest it, however.
Rust can begin in the chamber, since one of the ingredients of black powder is potassium nitrate, also known as saltpetre. This is a salt before and after combustion and will promote rust.
And yes, even stainless steel will rust given enough time and exposure.
About 25 years ago, I had a stainless steel Ruger Security Six that was left in the trunk of my 1973 Duster. The trunk leaked all winter, unknown to me, so that revolver sat in water for months.
When I pulled the revolver out, in the spring, it had a very faint layer of orange rust on one side. The rust wiped off, leaving an even fainter discoloration, but there is no doubt that the revolver rusted.
Stainless steel will rust, just takes a whole lot longer than carbon steel.
Another thing about cap and ball revolvers. The oversized ball forms a tight seal, but the cap has no such advantage. Moisture can work in between the cap and nipple over time, affecting or deadening the load.
The old-timers often worked beeswax or candle wax around the cap on the nipple, to make it somewhat waterproof. Wax was often placed over the ball as well, not for lubrication but for waterproofing.
Some years ago, I recall reading one Union officer who evaded capture by swimming to an island in a river. He found other Union soldiers hiding on the same island, waiting for nightfall to make their escape.
I recall him saying that he had waterproofed his revolver with wax over the balls and caps, and felt confident his revolver would fire. The other Union soldiers with sidearms had not done so, and they felt their revolvers were useless.
They later made their way back to Union lines. Curious, the officer fired his revolver and found that all loads fired perfectly. I don't recall if the others, who did not waterproof their loads, fired theirs.
Anyway, that's pretty effective waterproofing for a cap and ball sixgun to be immersed in water twice, then exposed to a wet holster for hours, and still fire.
I would not leave a cap and ball cylinder loaded for long. I think that with a carbon steel cylinder, rust is invited. Stainless steel may be more resistant but is not foolproof.
Even if the chambers do not rust, moisture can still deaden the load. Never underestimate the power of water.
Gatofeo
Member
That's the Hell of it. I can't recall where I read that anecdote about the Union officer who had sealed off his chambers so well.
It was at least 20 years ago, from what I can recall. It may even have been a magazine article. I wish I'd photocopied the blamed thing and put it in my files.
I remember that, when reading it, I was struck by the little story and it held my interest. The details are fuzzy but I do recall that they swam out to an island, where they hid during the day, then swam to the far bank and safety. So, his revolver was twice dunked.
I wish I could remember where I read that. If I ever find it, I'll post it verbatim.
Damn, I hate getting older ... makes me grumpy ... and forgetful about remem--- um .. what was I talking about? ... forgot ...
It was at least 20 years ago, from what I can recall. It may even have been a magazine article. I wish I'd photocopied the blamed thing and put it in my files.
I remember that, when reading it, I was struck by the little story and it held my interest. The details are fuzzy but I do recall that they swam out to an island, where they hid during the day, then swam to the far bank and safety. So, his revolver was twice dunked.
I wish I could remember where I read that. If I ever find it, I'll post it verbatim.
Damn, I hate getting older ... makes me grumpy ... and forgetful about remem--- um .. what was I talking about? ... forgot ...
Kaylee
Member
out of curisoity, how was this waxing done? I keep having images of doing it the same way one would wax-seal a letter (with dripping molten wax) and I can't help but wonder if there's an ignition danger.
No?
No?
Cap n Ball
Member
I can think or at least guess of a couple of ways the old timers could have done it would be to take the loaded cylinder and either drip candlewax into the chambers or to flatten out beeswax into a sheet and then press the end of the cylinder into it and then push the plugs into the chambers. A drop of wax on the capped nipples would also help. I think that if I knew I'd be crossing rivers or creeks I'd probably have some sort of water proof tin or box that I'd keep my cylinder and powder flask in.
Imaginos
Member
Elmer Keith on C&B
Elmer Keith wrote a chapter on cap-n-ball guns in his book "Sixguns".
that properly loaded C-n-B sixguns can be stored for years and still fire reliably.
One method of sealing the caps is to take a small drop of clear nail enamel, cap the nipple and allow that drop of enamel to run around the base of the cap and dry. Some threads on Sixgunner.com talk about successful immersion tests using this method.
Anecdotal reports have Wil Bill Hickock firing, cleaning, and reloading his Navies every morning to make sure that they were ready for the new day. That may have been his practice, but I doubt most people followed the same rule.
Elmer Keith wrote a chapter on cap-n-ball guns in his book "Sixguns".
that properly loaded C-n-B sixguns can be stored for years and still fire reliably.
One method of sealing the caps is to take a small drop of clear nail enamel, cap the nipple and allow that drop of enamel to run around the base of the cap and dry. Some threads on Sixgunner.com talk about successful immersion tests using this method.
Anecdotal reports have Wil Bill Hickock firing, cleaning, and reloading his Navies every morning to make sure that they were ready for the new day. That may have been his practice, but I doubt most people followed the same rule.
Burt Blade
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If you plan to leave a percussion revolver loaded, make sure that the cylinder is entirely free of oil. The slightest film of oil on the nipples can contaminate the primer in the caps. Oil can migrate by capillary action, so the oil you leave on the nipple threads can wind up in the caps. Oil in the chambers will degrade your powder, although this is far less of a problem than dissolving the contents of the caps.
As an experiment, I left a lightly oiled Ruger Old Army loaded and capped (5 chambers) for a week, then took it to the range to see if it would work. All five caps showed visible signs of dissolved primer leaking out of them. Four of the five loaded chambers failed to fire. The fifth fired after a pronounced "hang" of about 1/2 second. When I recapped the four remaining loads, the first three would not fire until I used a pick to clear the nipples. The last of the four fired with a fresh cap, but again there was a short but noticeable "hang".
click-click-click-click-clickwhuffBOOM! is _not_ what you want to hear from anything you plan to grab under stress.
As an experiment, I left a lightly oiled Ruger Old Army loaded and capped (5 chambers) for a week, then took it to the range to see if it would work. All five caps showed visible signs of dissolved primer leaking out of them. Four of the five loaded chambers failed to fire. The fifth fired after a pronounced "hang" of about 1/2 second. When I recapped the four remaining loads, the first three would not fire until I used a pick to clear the nipples. The last of the four fired with a fresh cap, but again there was a short but noticeable "hang".
click-click-click-click-clickwhuffBOOM! is _not_ what you want to hear from anything you plan to grab under stress.
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