Quick questions about Barrel leading

[TacticalBacon]

So... im just now understanding the concepts of reloading and have successfully reloaded cartridges for 45 acp.

i am wanting to step things up and begin the ladder process of step up loads for my hand guns and start casting for hunting cartridges IE. 308 , 30-30 EXT. while also playing with BHN to Achive an effect result on game.

now.. i understand that Size , Hardness and Velocity plays a important role in how much leading will be experienced for a given reload.

My Questions are...

1. exactly how damaging is leading to the barrel ? IE. does leading mean the barrel is trashed and needs to be replaced, or is it more so an inconvenience that now takes longer to clean out?

2. Is the process to remove leading (if need/can be) a simple or argous process.

3. i have seen a video by Hickok45 saying just fire a factory jacket round after a few cast rounds will rip the leading out of the barrel. so long as you dont let it build up becoming unsafe.
Is this true has anyone tested this?

4. will a gas check pretty much prevent leading for even soft cast bullets or what is its limitations ?

and lastly..

how effective is powder coating in retrospect to BHN? is it effective enough that i could shoot pure lead bullets with no leading effects, or does it have limitations as well?

i know most of this can be tested and answered for myself but because im unsure as to the level of damage done to the barrel by leading, i dont want to risk my firearms in the pursuit of answers

but if its not permanent damage then i would find it fun and joyful to figure out these answers as a curious reloader

 

[MEHavey]

1. It doesn't damage the barrel. It only makes for inconsistent bullet/groove engagement/increasingly poor accuracy.
2. Catch it early: Simple -- just bore solvent/patch. Catch it late: Can take bronze brush to score through it/allow penetrating oil to creep under/sit for awhile/patch out. Catch it very late: bronze brush/copper chore boy... ditto penetrating oil
3. No. Jacketed may take out some, the rest it just "irons in flatter"
4. Yes. GC will prevent most leading save instances of really bad fit to bore/over-hard alloys (stomp stomp)

PC'ing almost eliminates leading -- even with pure lead save in the most extreme cases of #4.

.

 

[ms6852]

1. exactly how damaging is leading to the barrel ? IE. does leading mean the barrel is trashed and needs to be replaced, or is it more so an inconvenience that now takes longer to clean out? NO. The barrel is not trashed, but if there is enough build up it will affect accuracy. Very easy to remove leading if you clean you firearm after every time you shoot it. Harder to remove if you do not, just take a little more scrubbing.

2. Is the process to remove leading (if need/can be) a simple or argous process. As noted above, easy if firearm is cleaned after every shooting.

3. i have seen a video by Hickok45 saying just fire a factory jacket round after a few cast rounds will rip the leading out of the barrel. so long as you dont let it build up becoming unsafe.
Is this true has anyone tested this? Don't know.

4. will a gas check pretty much prevent leading for even soft cast bullets or what is its limitations ? Check this link:
https://support.leeprecision.net/en/knowledgebase/article/gas-checks-what-are-they-and-do-i-need-one

and lastly..

how effective is powder coating in retrospect to BHN? is it effective enough that i could shoot pure lead bullets with no leading effects, or does it have limitations as well?[/QUOTEhttps://grimwarrior.com/how-to-powder-coat-bullets-proper-guideline/

Sorry messed up but click to expand quote, reply is written inside quote.

 

[Charlie98]

Of all the things you listed, IMHO... and IME... bullet to bore fit is the most critical element for successful cast rifle loading. Not only does it prevent severe leading, in most cases, but gives you a better chance for good accuracy. No, I'm not saying you can run dead soft lead bullets at 2500fps in the .30-06, bullet hardness also plays a role, too.

Gas checks help, but they are not a substitute for a good bullet to bore fit.

Like ME says, running a jacketed bullet over lead fouling will only serve to imbed it further into the rifling.

One of my favorite tools to clean lead out of a barrel is the LeadOut cloth (it's sold under several names.) You need to remove the bulk of the leading with a bore brush, and then on a dry bore, run a very tight patch of LeadOut through the bore... and you'll see chunks of lead come out the other end.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

What seldom gets mentioned is the critical role the alloy formula plays in accuracy, fit, and bore seal - the key elements of preventing leading. The ratios of lead to tin determine not just hardness but fill and cohesion - how much the alloy will deposit as a result of bore friction. The balance between lead, tin and antimony will determine how well the alloy will resist pressure, friction and heat. The older Ideal and Lyman loading manuals contain extensive articles on the subject and are well worth reading twice - or more - just to gain an understanding of the relationship between friction, heat from gases and the bullet alloys used for casting. I really recommend starting with a deep dive into alloys and how they have progressed over the years before jumping into casting. The Lyman’s cast bullet manuals are a good starting investment. JMO and worth every penny you paid.

 

[thirty-eight]

The older Ideal and Lyman loading manuals contain extensive articles on the subject and are well worth reading twice - or more - just to gain an understanding of the relationship between friction, heat from gases and the bullet alloys used for casting.

The Lyman’s cast bullet manuals are a good starting investment.

Most definitely. The easiest way to remove bore leading is to avoid it.

 

[mdi]

Excellent place (almost as good a THR!) to find info on all aspects of cast bullets; https://castboolits.gunloads.com/ and the cast bullet "Bible"; https://web.archive.org/web/20230114141653/http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

I've been casting for a little while and like many suggest K.I.S.S. BHN is a big subject for cast bullet uses, but for hunting other factors come into play. Bullet shape is a major consideration. Some hollow points won't perform at many cast bullet velocities. Velocity plays a big part. Bullet alloy (not just BHN) is important for bullet performance. Bullet fit to gun is one of the top items shooting cast bullets. Cast bullet size can be responsible for clean accurate shooting or hours of cleaning leaded inaccurate barrels.

One way to get started is to find a vendor that will provide a decent BHN and a diameter for your gun and purchase a few to ger a feel for cast bullets.

I started with a stainless steel pot, a Coleman stove, a slotted spoon I stole from Ma's kitchen a Lee ladle and a Lee mold. I fluxed with candle wax/crayons and lubed with a long discontinued Lee Pan Lube Kit. My beginning culls occasionally went to 75% , then tapered off to about 10%, but my Ruger Super Blackhawk was well fed for about a year with my simple set up and every casing session was a learning experience. Home casting can become a long time, very involved addition to our shooting reloading hobby but possibly the most
satisfying (I now have mebbe 18 molds from 65 gr 22 cal to 1 oz 12 slugs and buckshot and 1/2 ton of lead ingots in my shed and I love it all)...

 

[Rule3]

Don't use lead bullets and you will not have leading!
Use "paint" coated or Polymer coated, FMJ or gasp Plated.

There is no magic gun cleaner that removes lead. It is removed by physically brushing with bore brush and some solvent
Yes there are some nasty acids or mercury but don;t go there,
Surprised no one mentioned bore slugging? Determine the actual bore size and then what> You have to find bullets that match that or resize yourself
To much of a PTA especially for a new reloader.

Find someone other than Hickup to watch! Gads

 

[fxvr5]

See these articles:

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/ammunition_st_lowdownleadfoul_201002/99962

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/6/26/how-to-clean-tough-lead-deposits-from-your-barrel

 

[BWS]

Not sure from your post;

Are you shooting cast in your 45acp? It and 38sp are excellent cartridges to get started casting with.

Towards rifles and cast.... as the pressures and velocity go up,the "climb" gets steeper. You'll find most common chamberings do very well with reduced loads.

Main thing to do when using bronze wool,or real chore boy wrapped brushes on lead removal..... lots of fluid. I like Ed's red. Good luck with your project.

 

[fxvr5]

Funny thing, and to add another perspective: I use Chore Boy copper scrubbers around a brush, and have never used a fluid with it. Works perfect. Scrapes out every bit of lead, quickly. My experience is limited to handguns.

 

[nettlle]

I shoot a lot of cast pistol bullets from different makers. Some lead the bores and some do not. I think the recipe for the bullet lead has a lot to do with this. If I find a very accurate cast lead bullet at a good price and it leads the bore I will stay with that bullet. I keep and old .22 caliber bronze bore brush wrapped with Chore Boy in my cleaning kit. A few swipes with Chore Boy and the leading is gone. Adds about 30 seconds to the cleaning process. Leading isn't really all that big of a deal. At least not for me anyway.

 

[bluetopper]

I shoot lead exclusively in all my handgun cartridges with zero leading and that includes max loadings of 44 Mag. But you mentioned you want to shoot lead in 30-30 and 308; my advice is to not go there. You probably won't shoot them enough to make the price difference of bullets worth while. Especially when you factor in the trouble of assembling gas check bullets and the trouble to clean lead out of a long rifle barrel.

 

[Thomasss]

Remember: every truth has a grain of a lie And every lie has a grain of truth. Even my answers. One problem I hope you don't have is too much lead in the bore. Everything said so far is true to a degree. No one knows for sure when leading starts and how bad it becomes in your gun unless you check for it while doing your experiments. I try to stay on the safe side, so I don't have serious problems. I had to scrub lead out once...it wasn't a lot of fun, but I did it with a general solvent and a bronze brush. Now answers:
1 & 2) If you want to hunt, use only Jacketed bullets. Or get a muzzle loader. Traditional muzzle loaders were made for soft lead and slow moving bullets. Lead bullets are slow and kills game with heavy projectiles. Hornady among others says that barrels are leaded with bullets traveling 1,000 fps to 1100fps or faster. I think it's based on lead hardness. Soft lead is generally more accurate that hard lead, because it will obturate in you gun. Obturate is defined as: the back of the bullet travels faster than the front, so it widens and seals the gas from going on by. Lead that is too hard can travel down the barrel fast enough to cause stripping, ie. jumping over the rifling. Hard lead doesn't obturate as much. Both causes leading. Hard lead allows some faster speeds. Can you solve these problems with hard lead? Yes, Is it worth the time, effort, mistakes(leading), money? To me, no.
3-4) Not watching for leading is like playing Russian Roulette for both you and your gun. Safety First.
Gas checks are good, but only to what extent? Just like powder coated bullets are good for fast speeds, but how fast? I don't know and don't care to find out. Some coated bullets were tried a few years ago for hunting. Ever hear of them? The stuff ended up coating barrels because of friction and the stuff was mighty hard to remove. Don't hear anything about it anymore. In hand guns, cast or powder coated bullets travel at 88% of jacketed velocity. Many will argue this point, but how many will admit they damaged an expensive gun to find out?
Lastly, you have no idea what pure lead is and probably couldn't afford in any quantity if you found some. I bought some for muzzle loading once, years ago used for chemistry applications, 50lbs. minimum and it was 99% with lots of trace minerals. It didn't shoot very good. I had to dilute it 3% to 5%. But yes, Missouri Bullet Company(MBC) has two BHN powder coat bullets and according to them, the higher BHN shoots faster. They don't know how fast, they just heard that from people that shoot their higher BHN powder coated bullets. Read MBC fact sheet.