Rechambering a Savage for long range match work.

[brass shower]

I've aquired a Savage 116 that's currently chambered in .300 Win mag that I'd like to turn into a long range target rifle, possibly something that I could use in a 1000 yard match. I chose the Savage since it's more affordable, and easier to swap barrels and rechamber. I'll probably go with a Choate Ultimate sniper or Varmint stock since I like the pistol grip, it's relatively cheap, heavy enough to soak up some recoil, has some neato features, and has the clearance for a massive bull barrel to be mounted. Since I'm going to be giving it a new heavy barrel, I figure I can rechamber for something a little more appropriate for target work, such as the 7mm or .300 Winchester Short Magnums. The shortfat cases should be better suited for accuracy, and with the long action I'll be able to seat low drag bullets farther out than the short action would allow, which will allow them to be touching the rifling when chambered, and also allow for more powder to get stuffed in the case and enhance the velocities of heavier low drag bullets without causing an overpressure load.

I'll need to replace the box magagine in the rifle to allow reliable feeding of the new cartridge. I'm thinking the magazine for the Remington Ultra mags will probably work best for this. The Remington Short Action Ultra mag case is a shortened RUM and should feed from the RUM magazine. Is the WSM case similar enough in dimensions to the RSAUM case to feed from the Ultramag magazine?

The current bolt face will work with both the Winchester and Remingon short mags, correct?

Any other thoughts from anyone with experience in this subject will be welcome.

 

[Jim K]

" I figure I can rechamber for something a little more appropriate for target work, such as the 7mm or .300 Winchester Short Magnums."

How can you rechamber from a long cartridge to a shorter one or to a different caliber? Even for the same caliber, you will have to set the barrel back, and the barrel contour might not allow that. You will probably have to rebarrel either way, plus do all the other alterations you mention.

Plus, there is nothing wrong accuracy wise with the .300 Win Mag. I suggest spending some time and money developing a load the rifle likes rather than looking for a solution that will cost some big bucks.

Jim

 

[Mike Hull]

300Win Mag., is the caliber of choice for many LR shooters.

 

[kaferhaus]

The short magnums have shown no propensity to do anything better or even as well as the "long" versions that make them worth buying.... OTHER than the fact that they'll fit into shorter action guns.... which is of dubious practical advantage... these cartridges like the .204 were developed for one reason and one alone.... marketing.... to increase unit sales.... what's a company to do once most of the folks in their customer base have a 06, 08, 223, 30-30, etc. etc.? bring out "new, improved, revolutionary, shorter, fatter, faster, bigger"

300 win mag with a decent barrel and good loads will likely shoot better than you can shoot...

Choate stocks are butt ugly, cheap, and cheaply made... likely not much better than what came on your rifle. Even a very expensive high dollar stock won't shoot any better than a cheap properly bedded factory one will.... sometimes they won't shoot as well....

 

[Dr.Rob]

I'd have to say I don't understand buying a rifle which is perfectly capable of sub moa groups with the intention of rechambering it.

You can still play with LOA to make sure your bullets touch the rifling as you load them (my dad does this with a Ruger 25-06).

Developing a load in .300 WM is far less expensive than re-doing the action and barrel to take .300 WSM. Much less trying to get a Remington magazine to fit a savage rifle. I guess what I'm saying is if you wanted a heavy barrel model 700 in 7mm mag or 300 WSM... buying it from the factory will be far less expensive than 'hot-rodding' a 'cheap' Savage. .300 WM is a near perfect round for 1000 yards, as you can use any .308 match grade bullet with more case volume at relatively lower pressure (say a 168 gr match king at 3000 fps compared to a 30-06 where the same load would run at 2800 fps from the factory.

I've hunted with a Savage 116 for many years... and it's likely the most accurate rifle I own. MANY varmint and long range shooters picked up the Savage 110LE as an inexpensive long range rifle in .308. Well the cat has been out of the bag for years, and Savages are no longer 'cheap.'

Those old 110LE's used a long action and a spacer to become a 'short action' which you'd likely have to replicate to do the .300 to .300WSM conversion. Savage at the time didn't make a true 'short action' like they do now. Accuracy didn't suffer with the spacer, but loading was smoother in a true short action.

If you don't like the stock, well that's easily replaced on any rifle. Rather than spend a fortune re-inventing the wheel... shoot the rifle a bit. if the accuracy isn't to your liking (you should be able to shoot 3 shot half inch groups with it at 100 yards from the factory), then by all means look at re-barreling/chambering it. If it shoots just fine, buy some high end optics and mounts and spend your money in load development.

Hope the info helps.

 

[Master Blaster]

You can still play with LOA to make sure your bullets touch the rifling as you load them (my dad does this with a Ruger 25-06).

I have a savage 10 fp LE modell in .308. An expert shooter at my club suggested I seat the bullets out longer to get better accuracy. I tried exceeding the length specified in the lyman manual for the sierra hpbt 168 match king, and found that the bolt would not close if I even added 1/1000 to the OAL. I guess when I burn the throat up some this will work though.

I get excellent accuracy with my 10 FP, but I have also read that seating the bullet slightly farther from the lands so there is a little jump can help accuracy. Does anyone do this???

 

[wanderinwalker]

I get excellent accuracy with my 10 FP, but I have also read that seating the bullet slightly farther from the lands so there is a little jump can help accuracy. Does anyone do this???

Depends on the bullet, load and rifle. My AR-15, when shooting the long 80gr bullets for 600 yards, likes them loaded to about .01" off the lands and only running around 2625-2650fps. Any faster and it spits them off course, at least with Varget. Someday I may use up my supply of Varget and try out RL15.

On the .300 WM Savage, use it as is! It should shoot fine. One of the gunsmiths in my area, Larry Racine, uses Savage 110 actions as the basis of many of his long-range rifles. I'm not sure what stocks he uses, but they are fully-adjustable laminated target models. I know one of his primary long-range guns is a .30/338, but I think he also uses a .284 (but it might be a 6.5-.284, no sure).

 

[brass shower]

Thanks for everyone's input. Understand that I'm not dissing the 300 WM. It's plenty accurate for most purposes but I believe there are better cartridge designs available and I'm willing to explore them. This is going to be a target rifle. The loads are going to be hand developed and ammo availability is not a factor. I'm a believer in the shortmag concept. True, it doesnt do anything the 300 WM doesn't do, it just does it more efficiently. I like the idea of less powder being burned to obtain the same velocity. Less powder being burned means slower throat erosion, more consistent velocities, slower barrel heat up, and less recoil. I like the idea of being able to try a long low drag bullet that would not normally fit in the long action magazine. Sure I would be able to use it in the 300 WM, but the length of the magazine dictates how far out I can seat that bullet and only serves as a potential roadblock in my quest for the most accuracy I can wring out of the rifle.

In it's factory setup this rifle will shoot well enough for most purposes, but once this light barrel gets heated up after a few shots the groups size expands to disappointing levels. In addition the recoil in this light rifle, while nothing like the Ferret .50 BMG that I had still beats the hell out of me and degrades my ability to shoot accurately. And I do know how to shoot accurately, .5 MOA or less being the norm with my Ruger M77 Varmint in .243 with factory ammo. closer to .3 MOA with my handloads. I'm not rechambering the current barrel, I'm replacing it with a new heavy target contour barrel. The reasons for this being more weight to reduce the beating I'm taking, which will in turn keep my admittedly talented self shooting straighter for a longer period of time, and more mechanical accuracy with long strings of fire as the barrel heats up. Heavy barrels take longer to heat up enough to start degrading group size. And since the barrel is getting replaced I see no reason to stay married to the original 300 WM chambering.

Your input is appreciated, but there's some thought behind my choices. To me it's all about finding that sweetest possible combination with the tool at hand. Would most shooters be able to utilize these little factors well enough to make a difference? Probably not, but I'm willing to experiment with it to find the perfect combination. I'm not looking for good enough, I'm looking for as good as it can get. Keep your input coming, I'm still looking for answers to my original questions though.

 

[Dr.Rob]

That "adjustment" to have the bullet JUST touch the lands is a FINE one to be sure.

I understand the reasoning for this (according to someone writing for VHA-- varmint hunters assn) is to eliminate the "jump" to the lands... essentially the "jump" creates a secondary shockwave to the detonation of the powder... so fast you can't see or feel it but enough to slightly destabilize the bullet at longer range.

If the bullet doesn't have to 'jump' the gap, the extra shockwave is eliminated, or at least reduced, though some claim this raises the chamber pressure.

All I know is... you can fiddle awful hard to get a rifle to do better... and create a lot of mess and expense in the process.

Maybe I'm confused... my 116 came with a stainless fluted "compact" barrel that's nearly 2 inches in diameter at the base, and 3/4 inch or so at the muzzle brake. The advangae I found to this was bull barrel accuracy in a shorter package. Stainless DOES heat up faster than carbon steel... so I keep my shot strings to 5 rounds before my POI starts to string from the barrel being too hot.

As far as the WSM concept is concerned... I'm still not convinced. While I understand a shorter, thicker case can generate the same pressure as a .300... I'd be leary of the "slop" in a pusher action shoving a short case into a long chamber (hence Savage's adaptor), if your pointy perfect spitzer bullet HITS the squared-off shoulder inside the chamber head-on (say while enthusiasticly working the bolt) you COULD set the bullet BACK in the case, creating an overpressure load, depending on how close to SAAMi spec you are pushing your limits.

Make sense? That adapter has GOT to be there for a reason on the old long action rifles converted to short cartridges.

 

[ocabj]

Is it a heavy barrel? If so, leave it alone. 300WM is a good 1000yd cartridge. Shoot it until your barrel goes south and then rechamber in 6.5x284. Repeat.

 

[atek3]

http://www.jprifles.com/Remington700.shtml

have them rebarrel it in 7 WSM, seat the 7mm hornady A-max 162 gr out to the lands, put a JP recoil eliminator on the front end.

The gun will be ugly, but much more pleasant to shoot than the stock 300 WM setup.

atek3

 

[Master Blaster]

One way to eliminate felt recoil is to use a PAST recoil sheild that you wear on your shoulder, Midway sells them and they really work. Another is a Pachmyer decelorator recoil pad on the stock, they also work very well.

 

[brass shower]

decisions, decisions

Doing a bit of research I learned that this Savage is a pre-WSM/UM model. In 2002 savage increased the barrel diameter in order to safely chamber the Short mag and ultra mag cartridges. The receiver on this rifle can't be chambered for a shortmag, leaving my original aspirations a moot point. A standard magnum case will be the widest I can use, I'm a little disappointed, but only because I wanted to try out the accuracy potential of the shortmags firsthand.

Now being that the shortmag option is out the window, I looked at the long range trajectories of the .264, .270, 7mm, and .300 belted magnums. I also looked long and hard at the 6.5 rem mag as an alternative to the .264 win mag, but the latter offers slightly more performance and can always be downloaded if barrel life is a concern. I picked up a spankin deal on .264 brass last weekend, which sealed my fate. A 264 win mag barrel is being ordered, and in about 10 weeks I'll get to try my hand at installing it.