Reforming 30.06 from 8mm - Lee Die & Chambering issue

[y5e06]

Reforming 30.06 for 8mm - Lee Die & Chambering issue

Hi all,

I just started trying to reform 30-06 brass for use in .323 8mm mauser.
Full length sizing & loading WIN 8mm brass chambers and cycles fine. However, when I tried my 1st reformed 30-06 brass the dummy round wouldn't chamber. I'm using Lee 3-die set with full length sizing die with the final brass trim at ~2.225"
comparing the brass indicates the reformed brass does not have the shoulder bumped quite as far back as on the WIN 8mm brass. I have the die seated 1/3 turn down, so the shell plate is securely contacting the die. the 8mm brass does not appear as if much, if any, reworking of the shoulder on the resize (Particular brass selection, I think).

Has any one else experienced this? I tried resizing the brass 3-4 times. I tried chambering in my '38 Turk (reworked Gew?), '41 BYF K98, and 24/47, none would close the bolt. They rotate about 1/2 way through the range and then a hard stop. So, I'm guessing the Lee dies aren't forming the brass properly. I think I've checked everything else except the head space on any of the rifles as I have no gauges.
any input or similar experiences?
I suppose I could try to get lee to swap out for a new die. what a pain. or pick up a FL sizing die from someone else.

thanks,
Morgan

 

[R.W.Dale]

well it sounds like either an out of spec DIE or shellholder.

You could try shaving a few thousandths off the top of your shellholder or even find a thinner one (top edge to case recess) and see where that gets ya

 

[Vern Humphrey]

You're right -- the Lee dies aren't setting the shoulders back far enough. Call Lee and see what they'll do for you.

Do you have a caliper? It might help if you could measure from base to shoulder. The unmodified .30-06 case should measure 2.111" and the fully-formed 8mm should measure 1.815", base to shoulder.

 

[rcmodel]

It could also be you just have some extra hard 30-06 brass that doesn't want to be a 8mm Mauser.
Might try neck annealing back past the shoulder slightly and see if that helps.

Stand them in a pan of water about half way up the case.
Heat the necks red hot with a torch.
Tip them over in the water.

It seems you mentioned a shell plate, so modifying that is probably out of the question.

Other then trying annealing, it sounds like you either need a different die, or a press with less flex in it.

rc

 

[David Wile]

Hey Y5,

I know this is not exactly responsive to what you asked, but have you considered trading your 30-06 brass for 8MM brass? Sure there must be someone out there who needs 30-06 and has an excess of 8MM. They ought to be about an even trade in value. If you find the right person, it will only cost you each the price of shipping which should be minimal, you will not have to work to change the brass, and you will also have brass that is correctly marked on the head stamp. Just a thought.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

 

[y5e06]

all, thanks for the responses.
I measured the thickness of my shell holder as well as a handful of others I have from lee. they all were right at .250. so, it is the die that is out of spec. Looks like they didn't machine it deep enough.
Krochus, I ended up doing just that. I set the shell holder to my belt sander and periodically resized the brass, tested chambering, and continued. I eventually ended up with a shell plate shoulder at about 0.222 vs the original .250. I figured it was cheaper to take the plate down and ensure it was square, and cheaper if I screwed something up.
All three chamber now. the Turk and K98 very easily, and the 24/47 with every so light bit of resistance. The various shell lengths seem to match up well with the specs in the loading manuals, shoulder to base, neck to base, etc.
At this point I'm just reloading for the Turk as its a sporter and I'm working up Hog loads with Hornady 195gr & H4895. After I fire through this batch I'll try to just neck sizing, keeping the brass set aside for this particular rifle.

I could very well swap the '06 for 8mm brass and I have enough of my own for now, but I wanted to try reforming and see how well works out. I tried Win '06, LC '06, and I think Federal. All had the issue before adjusting the plate. I still may contact Lee.... but I'll need a new shell holder.

edit: I just realized I've been using shell holder and shell plate interchangeably. What I have is the Lee shell holder. I do not have a progressive so I'm actually not using a shell plate. sorry for the confusion.

 

[moosehunt]

Sounds like you had a faulty die, but it wasn't a case of not machining deeply enough--it was machined too deep. You probably would have been better off trimming the end of the die, not the shell holder. That conversion should be pretty fast and simple, but as Mr. Model pointed out, it should include annealing after the sizing and trimming, then probably a second sizing.

 

[rcmodel]

Be sure and mark the modified shell holder in bold print that it is non-standard now.

Using it by accident with any other caliber and setting the die correctly will create grossly excess headspace.

I believe I would have modified the base of the die, or returned it to Lee for exchange rather then create a booby-trap shell holder.

rc

 

[y5e06]

6 of one, half-dozen of the other.
It was a test to see if it would fix the problem, which it did. Its a basic #2 shell holder from Lee. I already engrave the caliber & die set on the side of all my shell holders anyway. I don't currently have anything that uses #2 (no 30-6 rifles etc). This one is visibly quite different than the others now. so if I end up w/ another die set and I can then go ahead and modify the die and toss the holder. no biggie.

 

[R.W.Dale]

On the plus side after using the especial shellholder to form the brass you can use a STD shhellholder and use this die as a Neck die for long brass life.

I believe I would have modified the base of the die, or returned it to Lee for exchange rather then create a booby-trap shell holder.

It's really not that big a deal, I have STOCK sellholders from different manufacturers that If I swap between my collet die and my FL die I'll end up with over .017" of excessive headspace full length sizing according to my case gauge. It's not like you don't have to pay attention to what shell holder you grab anyhow otherwize youy might try to load .223 on a 30-30 shellholder

 

[y5e06]

ah yes, I like that idea. No adjusting of the die within the turret for neck sizing. (turret press)