Reloading .300 Wby Mag with surplus powder

[JustAnotherPlinker]

Is reloading the 300 wby with surplus 5010 or WC-860 ($5-6/lb) plausible? (available from hitech ammo)

Everything I've read indicates that WC-860 is comparable in burnrate to H870 (which I cant find in the newest hogdon data manual) and 5010 seems to burn slightly faster.

I'd like to load 147 gr surp FMJ for practice (ya my shoulder is gonna pay!) to avoid paying for premium projectiles.

Note: I just found a load for H870 with the massive "250-grain Original" Barnes bullet. It calls for 83.5-88.5 gr of powder for 2490-2639 fps. Any ideas?

 

[bfoosh006]

Poke around on this site....www.castboolits.com... look for the "surplus powder forum" good reading. Good Luuck!

 

[rg1]

WC 860 or IMR 5010 surplus would not be suitable for 300 wby and the light 149 bullets. Maybe for 180-220 grain bullets but even then velocity would be low. Some data I've seen for reference only in the .300 Win Mag uses 74-80 grains of 860 with 180 grain bullets--2400-2700fps. It shows 72-80 grains of 5010 for 2300-2700fps with the 180 gr. bullet.
It would shoot and I doubt you could get enough powder in the case to cause pressure problems but I don't think it'd be worth the trouble experimenting with surplus powders.
In the past I've seen a few posts on using 860 or 5010 over on the LongRangeHunting.com forum.

 

[JustAnotherPlinker]

Well I'm trying to become proficient (i.e. used to the pain) shooting my new rem 700 without burning $.30 in powder per trigger pull. I figured at $45/8lbs I could shoot alot more and the reduced pressure of an H870 clone would also extend case life.

Over on castboolits there seems to be alot of people experimenting with booster charges of fast powder like red dot in a duplexed compressed configuration. Anybody here ever fooled around with such?

 

[rcmodel]

Duplex loading has been tried off & on for 75 years with limited success. And a lot of folks blew up rifles in the process.

With modern powder & primers, and without ballistics lab pressure testing equipment, there is no legitimate reason for it, or safe way to do it.

If it was necessary, or a safe practice, ammo manufactures would be doing it to get a leg up on the competition, but they aren't!

My advice is Fugadaboutit!

rcmodel

 

[lgbloader]

Plinker,

I really like to shoot my 300 WBY as well as my 338 RUM and my 375 as well. I like to shoot 3 rounds and let the barrell cool on these calibers. I really like to shoot off the bench at targets out 400+ yds. I will shoot 30 rounds and call it a day. but I do not use them to plink, more of an intense practice round, you know what I mean? Unless I am developing a load or siting my rifle, then I get the paper and walk out 100 yds.

For plinking, I have alot of smaller calibers that get called to duty and as of right now, my favorite two are the 30-30 with Trail Boss and 7.62 Russian. They eat minimum of 100 rounds each session.

Of course, if I break out my black rifles, that number goes up times 10 since autoloaders tend to gobble up the rounds.

My advise is get the most of your 300 WBY and feed it good food (Rounds) so that it remains "big and strong" as it should.

Cheers Mate.

 

[JustAnotherPlinker]

LG, actually I want to use this gun to hunt deer this fall (accuracy=less meat spoiled w/ big 300 wby) and I've only shot 20 rounds ($55!!) through it so far so I'd like to get much more practice. I have a pound of Varget (hold over from my FAL reloading days), a hundred winchester 147 fmj and 100 CCI 215 primers atm. Even with economy components the powder is the most expensive.

I've never owned another bolt gun so I'd like to develop my long range off hand skills with this one. I may never have to make a 300 yd shot but I'd like to be able to!

PS: I plink with the .22 conversion slide on my 92FS.

 

[R.W.Dale]

I've used IMR5010 with great sucess with 300wby shooting 150g or heavier bullets. This powder is too slow to yield top velocities but it's a great way to cheaply get 30-06 performance without sacrificing accuracy.

92.0grains of 5010 topped with a 150grn bullet with a stiff crimp and lit off with a hot cci magnum primer will give you 2860fps and provided sub moa accuracy in my rifle

 

[JustAnotherPlinker]

Was the recoil with compressed 5010+150 gr loads equivalent to 30-06 as well krochus? While max velocity would help my point blank ranges, 30-06 recoil would be much more tolerable for shooting more than 20 rounds per day.

By stiff crimp, do you recommend a lee factory type?

 

[lgbloader]

I've never owned another bolt gun so I'd like to develop my long range off hand skills with this one. I may never have to make a 300 yd shot but I'd like to be able to!

Ohhh.... I think I may have misuderstood and did'nt see the whole picture. It makes more sense and I think krochus may have something there.

Good Luck with you 300 WBY... It's my security blanket for hunting deer although I am stocking the Motorhome with a couple of different calibers as well this season.

 

[Geno]

I never experiemented too much with my Mark Vs beyond what was reasonable. The Mark V action is built to take some serious abuse, but even abuse has limits. I stuck to H4831 and Accurate 3100 for my .300 Wea Mag. My bias, don't risk your rifle, or your health.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Was the recoil with compressed 5010+150 gr loads equivalent to 30-06 as well krochus? While max velocity would help my point blank ranges, 30-06 recoil would be much more tolerable for shooting more than 20 rounds per day.

By stiff crimp, do you recommend a lee factory type?

Velocity was equivalent so why wouldn't recoil

According to my notes 92.0 grains inside a 300 wby case is quite compressed to the point where no more 5010 will fit in the case. As for the stiff crimp this powder is sooooooooo slow and builds such low pressure it's kinda needs all the help it can get with ignition. A hot magnum primer and a stout crimp helps. But even then expect to have a few unburnt grains after firing. Despite this accuracy was surprising. To that end a factory crimp die would help, although I didn't have one myself.

I like this powder and have used it in cartridges much smaller than 300wby mag.

 

[JustAnotherPlinker]

krochus, with a slower burning powder like 5010 the pressure curve is probably much shallower than in a real 30-06, which I suspect would lead to lower acceleration in the barrel and thus less "jerk" IIRC from calc. I wonder how barrel length would affect this load.

I guess I'm just curious if the recoil you experienced with the lighter loads was less "sharp" than what you would expect of a 30-06 in the same platform.

Regardless, thanks for the info.

 

[R.W.Dale]

guess I'm just curious if the recoil you experienced with the lighter loads was less "sharp" than what you would expect of a 30-06 in the same platform.

To answer that question I would have had to owned two rifles on the same platform in both calibers

 

[GooseGestapo]

Regarding the original post;
I've shot both WC860 which is the same as H870, (difference being different lots have a bit different burning rates. Some data matches up, some dosent' as a result) and H50BMG which is very simular to 5010. Actually slower burning from my data and experience than the WC860.

I'm thrilled with the performance of the WC860 from both my .300RUM and .257wbymag. Both get best accuracy with the WC860, and peak velocities as well. Though Retumbo is very close- slightly higher velocities but much more expensive.

I've loaded and compared 150 and 180gr loads in .300RUM with IMR and H4831, H and I4350, RL25, IMR7828, and Retumbo, and H50BMG.

Ditto the .257wby 4831's, 4350's, and 7828. I haven't gotten around to Retumbo or RL25 in the .257 however. H4350 has given some really good results with the 100gr bullets however. Essentially duplicates factory loads.

For the .300wby the WC860 should be the one. I paid $50 for 16lbs of WC860. Should be a lifetime supply, so I keep it refrigerated to prevent deterioration; I hope!

With the larger case capacity of the .300RUM, I'm at case capacity (compressed) with 110gr under the 150gr bullets, and these are running about 3,500fps. Accuracy is nomimal for the rifle which is about 1.5moa (Savage M110 w/26" lightweight barrel).
With the 180's, 105gr matches factory loads @ 3,270fps, and 107gr is max at 3,350fps. (WC860).

I would'nt expect more than "plinking" accuracy with the milspec FMJ's. I've gotten excellent accuracy and acceptable "on game" performance from Remington CorLoks.

 

[nicholst55]

I'd think that one of the slower surplus powders like WC860 would certainly work for practice sessions with heavier bullets, even if it doesn't develop peak velocities. I'd order some bulk Remington 180 grain bullets and work up an accurate load, then use premium bullets for hunting. Even then, peak velocities aren't actually needed. Desired, maybe, but not needed.

 

[JustAnotherPlinker]

Interesting Data

Thanks for the replies people, very helpful.

I bought "The Complete Reloading Manual for the .300 Weatherby Magnum" and it has data for 150 gr Nosler bullets. Here's what it lists for H870:

150 gr Nosler Partition (spitzer) or Solid Base Ballistic Tip
93 gr H870 = 3180 fps (101% compression)
95 gr H870 = 3250 fps (103% comp)
97 gr H870 = 3320 fps (106% comp)

I don't know when this data was published, but I did a comparison with the data for Nosler 165 gr and IMR 4350 from this book and the most recent Hogdon guide:

Complete Guide Book (26" barrel):
75 gr IMR 4350 = 3072 fps [no pressure given]
77 gr IMR 4350 = 3157 fps [no pressure given]
79 gr IMR 4350 = 3242 fps [no pressure given]

Hogdon (2008):
70 gr IMR 4350 = 2973 fps [46,900 CUP]
75 gr IMR 4350 = 3143 fps [53,400 CUP]

Was there a reduction in the allowable pressure limits for .300 Wby, or is this just lawerying at its best? I seem to recall reading somewhere that the .300 wby was rated for 70,000 psi (yes I know, not the same as CUP). Strange.

Regardless, WC860 should work, I think I'll buy a couple jugs of it as 1200 rounds of .300 wby will indeed last for years (but will my shoulder? ).

Edit:

I called Nosler about the data and the tech confirmed the results. They were published sometime in the last 10 years when H870 was still being made and he actually was surprised that they tested the 150 gr load. He also mentioned that the 300 wby doesn't have an official pressure rating, but that they [Nosler] considered it to be about 10,000 psi greater than most of the "maximum loads" published by alliant/hogdon/etc.

I then called Hogdon (I live in KS ) and the tech there told me that an uncompressed safe load would be 92 gr with a 150 gr bullet. He wouldn't comment on compressing the load like Nosler did though. I didn't mention pulldown powders or like, just implied I'd be using H870.

 

[rg1]

When you get started using WC 860 in your 300WBY come back and post your results. I have 860 for a 50cal but all my 300 WBY MarkV has seen has been Norma MRP powder and a little IMR 4831. I'm not interested in using 860 but should an emergency shortage arise it'd be good info to know. For now and since my Weatherby isn't for plinking but is a serious business rifle,I'll keep using my Norma MRP supply. Don't want to burn out my barrel plinking with it.

 

[rg1]

Weatherby data from the 80's says "do not use any load having an average breech pressure of over 55,000 PSI".
My Weatherby Reload DATA SHEET for WBY brass and rifles show:
Using IMR 4350--H 4831--Norma MRP powder
-Bullets are Hornady except for Nosler 200gr.
-Federal 215 LR magnum primers
-overall length 3 9/16"
-26" barrel
-------------------------------------
86 gr IMR 4350------110gr. bullet-----3726fps----48,950 avg pressure
88-- IMR 4350------110-------------3798-------51,180
90-- IMR 4350------110-------------3863-------53460
___________________________________________________________
82 gr IMR4350------130gr. bullet-----3488fps----49,540 avg pressure
84 IMR4350------130-------------3567-------52,570
86-- IMR 4350-----130-------------3627--------54730
______________________________________________________________
80 gr--IMR4350-----150gr bullet-----3343fps------48,000 avg pressure
82----IMR4350------150-------------3458---------52,380
__________________________________________________________
84 gr. HODGDON H4831--150gr bullet--3305fps-----47,620 avg pressure
86----H4831------------150----------3394--------51,990
88----H4831------------150----------3470--------54,570
__________________________________________________________
88 gr NORMA MRP------150-----------3545--------53,490avg pressure
------------------------------------------------------------------------
77gr IMR4350----------180gr. bullet---3066fps-----50,830 avg pressure
78---IMR4350---------180------------3110--------53130
79---IMR4350----------180---------- 3145--------53,610
_______________________________________________________________
80 gr HODGDON H4831--180-----------3060--------50,240
82 H4831-------------180----------3145--------54,310
______________________________________________________________
81.8 gr. NORMA MRP-----180----------3245fps-----51,800 avg pressure
____________________________________________________________
77.2 NORMA MRP--------200 Nosler bullet--3000fps----49,000
_________________________________________________________
76 gr HODGDON H4831--200 Nosler--------2858fps-----46,480 avg pressure
78---H4831------------200 Nosler--------2926--------50,620
80---H4831------------200 Nosler--------3029--------54,690
______________________________________________________________
73 gr. IMR 4350--------220 gr bullet------2878fps------54,890 avg press.
____________________________________________________________
74 gr HODGDON H4831----220 gr.--------2740---------47,920
76 H4831----------------220------------2800---------51,060
___________________________________________________________
77.2 gr NORMA MRP------220-----------2905 fps-------52,850 avg press.
Add this info to your 300 Weatherby book. It's for info only! Start lower and work up to these loads as some are the VERY MAXIMUM and use this data in Weatherby rifles only and reduce at least 10% in other rifles to start.
Remington 300WBY brass is thicker and has less volume so reduce for RP or other brass. Use at your own risk! This info is from Weatherby's LOADING DATA SHEET which has data for .224,240,257,270,7mm,300,340,378, and 460 Weatherby.

 

[JustAnotherPlinker]

So there is a difference in platform integrity? I'm shooting a Remington 700...

Oh and I'm using wby brass, although remington appears cheaper new.

 

[rg1]

Weatherby is supposed to have more freebore (bullet travel before engaging the rifling) than some other brands of rifles. More freebore is supposed to reduce initial pressure. The Remington 700 is as strong or stronger action as the Weatherby but I don't know if the 300 WBY in the Remington has as much freebore as the Weatherby? I have tried Remington cases in my Weatherby and you do need to reduce your charge of powder compared to using Weatherby brass. Using Norma MRP powder I reduce my loads 1-1/2 grains for RP brass compared to WBY brass and get approx. the same velocity. If you have a near max load worked up in WBY brass I'd drop back 3 grains in RP brass and work back up slowly.

 

[JustAnotherPlinker]

Roger that. I spoke with a gentleman from Remington this afternoon (took 30 minutes waiting on speaker) and he said that the 700s were designed to the same level as the true weatherby's (same distance from bullet to rifling... "freebore" I presume).