remington golden saber ?'s

[jr81452]

i just started working up some loads for the golden sabers in 40s&w and was surprised to find that they don't perform well in my xd compact. "surprised" because the factory loads work much better than the ones i am reloading. does anybody have any suggestions that may be specific to this projectile? should i be loading them like regular 40's or does the "driving band" have special needs? i am loading:
180gr rgs
speer case
fed 100 prime
col 1.125"
aa#5, 5.6-6.6gr
aa#2, 4.8-5.6gr

the problem is that the factory loads get 1.5" groups while my loads are more like 4" when tested on a ransom.

any thoughts are welcome also.

 

[Steve C]

I've loaded Remington Golden Sabers in 9mm, .45 acp, .38 spl, .357 mag and have always found them to be quite accurate. I load them just like any other jacketed bullet with roll or taper crimp that brings the case mouth to touch the side of the bullet above the driving band with OAL to duplicate factory ammo.

Remington lists their 180gr .40 load at 1,015 fps so your best results should be at higher velocities. AA's data shows 992 fps with a max load of 7.0grs of AA#5.

 

[jr81452]

AA's data shows 992 fps with a max load of 7.0grs of AA#5.

are you sure about that? my aa book shows a max load of 180gr hp at 6.6gr with col @ 1.135". it may be the fact that i did not set my crimp to account for the smaller diamiter past the driving band. would'nt doing so mess with the head space?

 

[Walkalong]

oops

 

[Walkalong]

I show max of 6.5 Grs. AA# 5 for 965 FPS from Accurate's online data with a 180 XTP or a BRY (?) 180 Gr. HP for 32,500 & 33,600 PSI @ 1.135 (XTP) and 1.125 (BRY) Edition 3.1

I too, have found Golden Sabers to be very accurate.

I like the Zero 165 Gr. JHP with 6.1 Grs. Universal Clays. It is serious accurate in my Witness and my XD SC. 8.5 Grs. of AA# 5 was almost as good. I bought some Zero 180 Gr. JHP's to try, but have not done so yet.

These loads were safe in my guns with my load procedures. Reduce 10% to start.

Are your reloads straight? Try a Hornady seater if they are not. A good but not eccessive crimp is also important.

 

[jr81452]

Are your reloads straight? Try a Hornady seater if they are not. A good but not eccessive crimp is also important.

yep not new to reloading. i get .5" groups off xtp or hap with the same load specs. just can't seem to figure out why i can't match/beat factory groups with my reloads with this perticular bullet.

 

[Walkalong]

That is strange. Could be a bad batch. You will find the answer.
Try the Zero bullets. They are cheaper and shoot real well for me.

 

[Shoney]

Reading thru the 40S&W IPSC Load List compiled by David Maass, many are usign 6.6 to 7.6 gr AA5 with 180gr bullets. I would approach those loads with caution, but many of my most accurate loads were close to max loads.

Many of thE IPSC shooter used the 1.125 length, but several go longer, up to 1.200 and 1.210 when using Rem TMJ and FMJ, so you might play with the length to see what your pistol likes.

In my personal experience, groups went south when I over crimped, so the first sugestion is to back off on your crimp. Find the lightest crimp that will not allow setback on the bullet. I also now seat and crimp in seperate operations, whether lead or jacketed.

Best!

 

[Steve C]

are you sure about that? my aa book shows a max load of 180gr hp at 6.6gr with col @ 1.135". it may be the fact that i did not set my crimp to account for the smaller diamiter past the driving band. would'nt doing so mess with the head space?

Load data from Accurate's #2 revised guide, it looks like the #3 did drop loads with #5 down a few 1/10ths.

I use a Lee Factory Crimp die which will not reduce the case mouth to a diameter less than factory minimum so headspace is not an issue. Some other taper crimp dies may be able to over crimp so just drop the round into your barrel (removed from your gun) to see if it chambers properly, use a factory round to compare.

 

[jr81452]

ooh i did not know that my factory crimp die could not "over crimp". i never tried to apply that much crimp. guess i should have read the instructions

maybe i did get a bad batch. the weight was 179.8gr +/- .8gr for 80% of 500. but the other 20% had a low of 176.2 and a high of 182.6 (before you ask, yes i did weigh/measure all 500). the length was not to great either being .6383" +/- .0060". but the dia. was ok at .4000" +/- .0003" at the driving band and .3910" +/- .0010" on the shaft.

overall not what i would call a perfect manufacturing process. certanly not for the price of these. in fact i was suprized to look at my data and see that the Rem 180gr HP bulks i did last year not only performed better but were much more consistent being off only +/-.25gr in weight for all 500 and having a length of +/- .0013" .

if any body has some golden sabers on hand and the time i would appreciate it you checked them to see if mine are out of spec. i would be willing to get another batch to test if these are no good.

 

[JustAnotherJim]

Hello. Long time lurker. First time poster.
Anyway. I think the Lee FCD is likely at the root of your problem. I've run into similar problems with them and Golden Sabers. The post sizing can sometimes swage down the "driving band" and ruin accuracy, or even make the bullet loose in the case, increasing the odds of setback.

I really like the FCD and use one almost religiously, but NOT with Golden Sabers.

 

[Walkalong]

Just another reason not to "resize" perfectly good ammo.