Replicating/Improving Factory Loadings

[Bobson]

This is probably a lame question.

Regarding loading for rifles, if I find a certain factory loading that shoots particularly well in my rifle, and the bullet is available as a component, is it true that I will always be able to at least replicate the accuracy and performance of the factory loading in that bullet weight?

In other words, say I find that Nosler Trophy Grade 165gr Accubonds shoot very well in my 308 rifle. Is it a sure thing that I can match or improve on that performance by handloading 165gr Accubonds?

Or should I always buy a small box and test it first, even if I've had great results with that same bullet in a factory load, in the same rifle?

 

[herrwalther]

Regarding loading for rifles, if I find a certain factory loading that shoots particularly well in my rifle, and the bullet is available as a component, is it true that I will always be able to at least replicate the accuracy and performance of the factory loading in that bullet weight?

You may very well make a better round for your rifle. I load for my Marlin and it really likes Hornady Leverrevolution 200gr. I was able to shoo 1-1.5" groups with that ammo all day long. I decided to do what you think "replicate" the almost identical ammo with components at a fraction of cost of factory ammo. With my handloads my largest groups are 1" out of the same rifle.

 

[Rule3]

Yes, and you may even improve upon it. The only issue is that factory ammo uses powders that we do not have access to. They have their own special secret "recipes" You did a chronograph to test for the same velocities, but some other velocity may prove to be just as accurate.

The bullet is the same, use the same brass, primers you may not know, I do not know what Nosler uses but if you follow their manual you should be close enough. Federal surely uses their primers as does Win and Remington, Hornady uses what they can get (I called them)

The rest is up to you as far as accuracy.

 

[Bart B.]

Will anyone always be able to at least replicate the accuracy and performance of any factory load?

Maybe. But first, it's important to precisely measure its accuracy and performance. That means at least 30 shots per test group if you want at least 90% confidence the numbers are precise. 5 shot groups give about 50%; 3 shot ones about 30%

If the factory uses SAAMI spec barrels and chronographs to measure velocity and pressure, then you must also else what you use won't produce numbers that they do. If your barrel's hole is bigger than their test barrel, the same ammo will shoot bullets slower in yours than in theirs.

Commercial ammo's loaded with the same powders sold at retail. But it's mass produced lots in 100 pound (?) barrels they test and use what produces ammo to meet their specs. Their charge weight may well be more than a max listed load for retailed lots of the same powder with a "slow" lot of powder. It'll be less if their bulk lot's "faster" than what retail lots are. Arsenals have done the same thing for decades. Retail "canistered" powders have more controlled burns; they're made from blended lots of bulk power so reloading data will be safely consistent across all retailed lots of it.

If you chronograph ammo and get 2642 fps holding the rifle against your shoulder as it's rested atop something on a bench, it'll shoot bullets slower than the fixed barreled action the factory shot. The same rifle and ammo can easily have near 100 fps spread in average muzzle velocity across several people shooting it. SAAMI specs for commercial ammo is +/- 90 feet per second as tested in their hard mounted (don't recoil back reducing velocity) pressure and velocity test barrels.

There's about a 5% spread in charge weight that most people will not see any accuracy difference; if they shoot enough shots per group to be meaningful. Exactly what difference does 100 fps in speed or 1/10th MOA in accuracy for any bullet really mean for most people? How many people can precisely resolve their stuff to that level?

Proper full length sized .308 cases with a Tulammo primer under about 43 grains of IMR4064 with that 165gr Accubond in the case neck will probably be very close.

 

[Steve C]

The bullet is the most important factor in ammunition precision, estimated at 80% or greater. With some load development you should be able to easily duplicate factory results and most likely improve on it with a little load development. If you are hunting large game at 300 yds or less then MOA or less probably isn't important enough to spend a lot of time dialing in a load unless you enjoy the process and accomplishment.

Target competition, long range hunting small critters and over 300 yd shots make load development effort worth it.

 

[gamestalker]

That right there is the reason why I started reloading, so I could obtain optimal performance.

So the answer to your question is, yes, and if done properly, one can usually improve accuracy and over all performance by tailoring the load to a specific weapon. Factory offerings are manufactured to a specification that will chamber / fit in just about any chamber of that caliber. Where as often times, a reload for a specific rifle will often only chamber in the firearm it was tailored for. This is especially so when the shoulder and oal are adjusted for a specific chamber.

GS

 

[wanderinwalker]

It's not a lame question at all. The short answer is yes, you should be able to at least match the factory loading, and improvement is certainly a possibility.

A few years ago I picked up a Marlin 336 in .30-30. Right off the bat I decided that I wasn't going to try to optimize my .30-30 reloads. Factory ammo shoots well enough in it, and a .30-30 works great with "just bullets" (plain Winchester PowerPoints, Remington Core-Lokts, etc.). I worked up a load with H4895 and a 150gr Sierra ProHunter that matches factory velocity and accuracy in my rifle and called it a day.

I also think it's a fallacy to believe my reloaded ammo will always, automatically be better than any factory ammo. I've been on the line when some great shooters have done impressive things with factory Black Hills or Federal match ammo. Enough to convince me not to chase perfect conformation of all components of my reloads, but to make sure they're consistent enough.

 

[Rule3]

Commercial ammo's loaded with the same powders sold at retail. But it's mass produced lots in 100 pound (?) barrels they test and use what produces ammo to meet their specs. Their charge weight may well be more than a max listed load for retailed lots of the same powder with a "slow" lot of powder. It'll be less if their bulk lot's "faster" than what retail lots are. Arsenals have done the same thing for decades. Retail "canistered" powders have more controlled burns; they're made from blended lots of bulk power so reloading data will be safely consistent across all retailed lots of it.

.

I am confused with the above? How can commercial powder be the same as sold in retail "canister"when you then state that retail is a blend of bulk powders??

If it is a blend then it is no longer the same? The powders mixed may be the same in the bulk containers ??

If I dump out a factory load, will it match any available retail powder I can buy?

 

[Bart B.]

Rule3, I probably confused you by not mentioning that bulk barrels are a single production lot of a given powder. Canister lots of that same powder are two or more production lots blended/mixed in retail lots that are very uniform across all lots so reloaders get consistent performance across all lots of the same powder.

So said the Remington factory field rep I used to shoot matches with. He won the Nationals in 1964 shooting a rebarreled/restocked Win 70 action. I asked why not a Rem 700. He said high power match winners shoot only the best stuff; Winchester primers igniting DuPont powders pushing Sierra bullets out of Winchester cases into Hart barrels screwed into Winchester Model 70 actions. Any one of several good wood stocks are just fine.

I doubt most factory loaded powder will produce the same results as canistered retailed powder of the same make/model. But I've got the same accuracy across several lots of canistered retail powder. Always used the same charge weights for a given bullet for all barrels chambered for it; both bolt guns and Garands. Almost never worked up any load for different retail component lots or barrel. Used the same recipes the winners and record setters did. Just twice for bullet, case and barrel combination no data existed for, never changed them across several barrels.

Arsenals can't do that, they have pressure issues for gas operated weapons and velocity issues to match trajectorys for existing sights and their settings for different ranges.

 

[Rule3]

Is there that much variance of the same powder from lot to lot. I would think with todays technology every lot would be so close it would be difficult to test the differance.

As with any mass produced product it is all pretty consistent.

How about Budweiser brand beers and Coca Cola. They are all mixed and bottled in different factories but all taste the same, )maybe not Mexican Cola it has REAL sugar

 

[Sunray]

"...should I always buy a small box and test it first..." More that you should work up the load before buying in bulk.
"...always be able to at least replicate..." Velocities will always be slightly different. Especially if your rifle has longer or shorter barrel than the one used in the tests. Not something to worry too much about though. Accuracy will most likely be better. You're tailoring your ammo for your rifle.
"...Budweiser brand beers..." Budweiser isn't beer. Ain't no rice in beer. It's a malt beverage that gets filtered through a great big horse. Always wondered for that Light stuff, how they got the horse to drink it a second time. snicker

 

[Rule3]

"...should I always buy a small box and test it first..." More that you should work up the load before buying in bulk.
"...always be able to at least replicate..." Velocities will always be slightly different. Especially if your rifle has longer or shorter barrel than the one used in the tests. Not something to worry too much about though. Accuracy will most likely be better. You're tailoring your ammo for your rifle.
"...Budweiser brand beers..." Budweiser isn't beer. Ain't no rice in beer. It's a malt beverage that gets filtered through a great big horse. Always wondered for that Light stuff, how they got the horse to drink it a second time. snicker

I will agree with you about Bud. Even when I drank I did not drink that stuff unless it was free. I live in the world of Micky Mouse and AB (Busch Gardens) We used to get very hammered when BG iwas first built on free samples.