can a one time felon [non violent] of 54 years ago get gun rights restored other than a presidential pardon? its the only federal conviction i have. my state has given me clemency for a 1951 charge, and all rights restored including guns. the federal says i cant own one. i am 73 and want to go hunting but cant. i have applied for the presidential pardon, but they say it takes forever. i can not afford an attorney. ty kindly
restoration of gun rights
- Thread starter purecty
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pcosmar
member
It depends on several things, state law, local politics, and federal bureaucracy.
The Firearm Owners Protection Act says that IF you have your rights restored or have been pardoned or expunged, then you are NOT a "prohibited person".
The problem is that this law is often not recognized, and getting your name off of NICS is difficult and expensive.
Check your State Laws, and then find a good lawyer. Pray a lot.
The Firearm Owners Protection Act says that IF you have your rights restored or have been pardoned or expunged, then you are NOT a "prohibited person".
The problem is that this law is often not recognized, and getting your name off of NICS is difficult and expensive.
Check your State Laws, and then find a good lawyer. Pray a lot.
armoredman
Member
jeep-2, check local laws. Every state law I have looked at defines a firearm including black powder/cap 'n ball, as well.
Flyboy
Member
What state are you in? Somebody might be able to recommend a lawyer who will work for a reduced rate (or possibly even pro bono).
damien
Member
What non-violent felonies exists 54 years ago? Moonshining?
The problem is not with the local authorities if I read the thread correctly. The problem is with the federal laws. the poster has been excused by the state, but the fed is a different ball game. My knowledge would say that no, you cannot own a firearm per federal law. I do not know what the legalities of black powder would be though. If hunting is what you desire, then I'm sure you could get a crossbow, or compound bow.
I wish you the best of luck. I really hope that something good comes of it.
I really hate the "felon in possession of a firearm" federal laws. I recently changed my opinion on this due to people in the posters position.
I wish you the best of luck. I really hope that something good comes of it.
I really hate the "felon in possession of a firearm" federal laws. I recently changed my opinion on this due to people in the posters position.
for the purpose of this chapter: federal law
(a) Firearm.:The term "firearm" means (1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;(2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;(4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;(5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e);(6) a machinegun;(7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code);and (8) a destructive device.The term "firearm" shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machinegun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Secretary finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.
(b) Machinegun.:The term "machinegun" means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.
(c) Rifle.:The term "rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge.
(d) Shotgun.:The term "shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell.
(e) Any other weapon.:The term "any other weapon" means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire.Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.
(f) Destructive device.:The term "destructive device" means (1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas (A) bomb, (B) grenade, (C) rocket having a propellent charge of more than four ounces, (D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (E) mine, or (F) similar device;(2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one- half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and (3) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled.The term "destructive device" shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon;any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device;surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.
(g) Antique firearm.:The term "antique firearm" means any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898) and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade
upstate NY---not down in the peoples republic of new york city and westchester county
New York State Laws are about the same except if a person owns a BP pistol and has NO pistol permit, they better not have the caps and ball to fit the pistol, other wise they are violating the Sullivan Laws
(a) Firearm.:The term "firearm" means (1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;(2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;(4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;(5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e);(6) a machinegun;(7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code);and (8) a destructive device.The term "firearm" shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machinegun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Secretary finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.
(b) Machinegun.:The term "machinegun" means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.
(c) Rifle.:The term "rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge.
(d) Shotgun.:The term "shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell.
(e) Any other weapon.:The term "any other weapon" means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire.Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.
(f) Destructive device.:The term "destructive device" means (1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas (A) bomb, (B) grenade, (C) rocket having a propellent charge of more than four ounces, (D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (E) mine, or (F) similar device;(2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one- half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and (3) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled.The term "destructive device" shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon;any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device;surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.
(g) Antique firearm.:The term "antique firearm" means any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898) and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade
upstate NY---not down in the peoples republic of new york city and westchester county
New York State Laws are about the same except if a person owns a BP pistol and has NO pistol permit, they better not have the caps and ball to fit the pistol, other wise they are violating the Sullivan Laws
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Unfortunately, the answer to this question is very, very gray. DO NOT listen to know-it-alls on the internet. The internet discussion forum world is a fantastic place to get hypothesis on complex legal questions, not real answers.
Here is an article written by a real, live lawyer on this very issue.
http://www.hwylaw.com/CM/Articles/Articles88.asp
Now, on the issue of blackpowder.
Federal law is clear as a bell. You as a felon will never, ever be prosecuted by the feds for having a blackpowder gun- here's the catch.
Most state laws are ambiguous as hell on the issue of blackpowder and its potential confluence with the "felon gun prohibition" and even though common "gun web board" logic dictates that you as a felon are always OK to have one, two recent cases in Montana and Florida- both states that had implicit exemptions for black powder firearms- have shown otherwise.
(Florida V. Bostic:
http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/clerk/briefs/2005/1001-1200/05-1082_JurisIni.pdf)
Wyoming V. Harris: Google wyoming FRANK ALAN HARRIS black powder
These were both states that had no explicit prohibition on Felons from possessing black powder firearms, yet "reinterpreted" their laws after the fact, at the expense of poor Messrs Bostic and Harris.
In short, the whole "Felon+Black Powder" thing, while universally decried on internet forums as being absolute truth, is an entirely gray area and unless you're willing to be the test case territory or live in a state where your AG is willing to proffer a legal opinion to the public without an existing case before him, you're skating on thin ice.
Sorry the news kinda sucks- you can always apply for a Presidential pardon. They're not easy to get, but guys like you (huge amounts of time passed for relatively minor offenses, assuming your record has been clean since) are usually at the top of the list to get one. MAKE SURE to file your petition ASAP- on the pardon application, you need to state your reason for wanting a pardon... Hunting is a very, very good reason to gun owners- Bush is far more likely to pardon for something like this than a (D) would be. Matter of fact, his most recent pardons had a case just like yours- an old man who had an offense from long ago and wanted to go hunting.
Here is an article written by a real, live lawyer on this very issue.
http://www.hwylaw.com/CM/Articles/Articles88.asp
Now, on the issue of blackpowder.
Federal law is clear as a bell. You as a felon will never, ever be prosecuted by the feds for having a blackpowder gun- here's the catch.
Most state laws are ambiguous as hell on the issue of blackpowder and its potential confluence with the "felon gun prohibition" and even though common "gun web board" logic dictates that you as a felon are always OK to have one, two recent cases in Montana and Florida- both states that had implicit exemptions for black powder firearms- have shown otherwise.
(Florida V. Bostic:
http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/clerk/briefs/2005/1001-1200/05-1082_JurisIni.pdf)
Wyoming V. Harris: Google wyoming FRANK ALAN HARRIS black powder
These were both states that had no explicit prohibition on Felons from possessing black powder firearms, yet "reinterpreted" their laws after the fact, at the expense of poor Messrs Bostic and Harris.
In short, the whole "Felon+Black Powder" thing, while universally decried on internet forums as being absolute truth, is an entirely gray area and unless you're willing to be the test case territory or live in a state where your AG is willing to proffer a legal opinion to the public without an existing case before him, you're skating on thin ice.
Sorry the news kinda sucks- you can always apply for a Presidential pardon. They're not easy to get, but guys like you (huge amounts of time passed for relatively minor offenses, assuming your record has been clean since) are usually at the top of the list to get one. MAKE SURE to file your petition ASAP- on the pardon application, you need to state your reason for wanting a pardon... Hunting is a very, very good reason to gun owners- Bush is far more likely to pardon for something like this than a (D) would be. Matter of fact, his most recent pardons had a case just like yours- an old man who had an offense from long ago and wanted to go hunting.
kentucky bucky
Member
I knew a fellow that had his gun rights restored after a two year stay in FCI Tallahassee. I think he had a petition that a bunch of people signed and I believe a Federal Judge gave him his rights back. It was 20 years ago and the particulars may be fuzzy in my head. Maybe the laws have changed. Worth a bit of research, though.
PS, NEVER take someone's word for it that it's OK now for you to have a firearm (even a muzzleloader). ALWAYS get it in writing that your gun rights have been restored.
PS, NEVER take someone's word for it that it's OK now for you to have a firearm (even a muzzleloader). ALWAYS get it in writing that your gun rights have been restored.
Judges today are politicians. They are very unlikely to run the risk of restoring the rights of a felon because that will be part of the smear compain against them next election even if they could. For the same reason very few governors will grant a pardon even if you have been a good guy.
Federaly there is a route you can go to have your rights restored, it was put in place in the 1968 package of gun control which included banning felons from ownership in order to get it to pass. Banning a segment of the population at that time was controversal, however by including a way for people to petition to have thier rights restored it faced less adamant opposition.
The problem is the branch responsible for processing that paperwork was defunded by congress at a later date when it became politicly acceptable. So legaly there is a way, there is just nobody that is able to process the petition.
So while there is a legal route at the federal level, there is no actual route in existance.
However the federal government does not define black powder arms and muzzle loaders as firearms, but many states do. So if you get a state level exemption then theoreticly you can still use such primative firearms in compliance with state and federal laws. However currently you can never legaly use cartridge firearms again in your life at the federal level.
Also since that distinction is not often made, if you say for example tried to get a carry permit even while legal at the state and federal level, according to NICS you would still be a prohibited person and the state checks likely rely on that as thier background check. Meaning you would still be considered a prohibited person unable to sign up for or or legaly use those primative firearms in any way that requires a background check.
Those laws are unconstitutional, and if I ever found myself a felon I might give up on America. Luckily I am still part of the privelidged class, sorry to hear you are not, but I will keep supporting your RKBA as well.
Perhaps you can argue the law is retroactively applied to you in conflict with the 5th Amendment since it did not exist at the time of the crime and wouldn't for another 17 years, and prior to that law felons could own firearms as they had throughout American history upon rejoining society.
Federaly there is a route you can go to have your rights restored, it was put in place in the 1968 package of gun control which included banning felons from ownership in order to get it to pass. Banning a segment of the population at that time was controversal, however by including a way for people to petition to have thier rights restored it faced less adamant opposition.
The problem is the branch responsible for processing that paperwork was defunded by congress at a later date when it became politicly acceptable. So legaly there is a way, there is just nobody that is able to process the petition.
So while there is a legal route at the federal level, there is no actual route in existance.
However the federal government does not define black powder arms and muzzle loaders as firearms, but many states do. So if you get a state level exemption then theoreticly you can still use such primative firearms in compliance with state and federal laws. However currently you can never legaly use cartridge firearms again in your life at the federal level.
Also since that distinction is not often made, if you say for example tried to get a carry permit even while legal at the state and federal level, according to NICS you would still be a prohibited person and the state checks likely rely on that as thier background check. Meaning you would still be considered a prohibited person unable to sign up for or or legaly use those primative firearms in any way that requires a background check.
Those laws are unconstitutional, and if I ever found myself a felon I might give up on America. Luckily I am still part of the privelidged class, sorry to hear you are not, but I will keep supporting your RKBA as well.
Perhaps you can argue the law is retroactively applied to you in conflict with the 5th Amendment since it did not exist at the time of the crime and wouldn't for another 17 years, and prior to that law felons could own firearms as they had throughout American history upon rejoining society.
i would get started on the pardon process asap... with the election comming, there will surely be a round of pardons before the next president takes office... depending on the offense, it is surely possible
start some reading here
http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/
start some reading here
http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/
Now is the absolute best time for someone like yourself to file for a pardon.
There is always an outgoing salvo of Pardons at the end of any presidential term- Bush, although he has issued the least amount of pardons in the modern era (by a pretty wide margin) has shown a definite CYA penchant and only tends to pardon very old or very minor cases. Given that your offense occurred in the latter half of the Truman administration, I'd say you have a heckuva chance- at least, better than everyone else.
There is always an outgoing salvo of Pardons at the end of any presidential term- Bush, although he has issued the least amount of pardons in the modern era (by a pretty wide margin) has shown a definite CYA penchant and only tends to pardon very old or very minor cases. Given that your offense occurred in the latter half of the Truman administration, I'd say you have a heckuva chance- at least, better than everyone else.
Purecty- In looking at the date of your post, I see that it was quite a while ago and you stated that you did indeed file for a pardon request... Bush issued 29 pardons subsequent to your post- one of them to a man nearly your age for a non-violent offense that occurred almost about your time- for the stated reason that he wanted to go hunting.
Maybe ya changed a few dates to preserve anonymity?
Was that you who got the pardon? I sure hope so.
Maybe ya changed a few dates to preserve anonymity?
Was that you who got the pardon? I sure hope so.
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