Restore a 1903?

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Outlaw Man

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I have a sporterized 1903 I picked up on a trade for a Remington 742. It was a decent conversion job, but it still leaves a bit to be desired. With the foggy Weaver 4x scope, it really doesn't get much use, so I'm wanting to do something that will inspire me to shoot it more.

Does anyone have a ballpark estimate of how much it would cost to convert it "back" to a 1903A4? Since it's already drilled and tapped for a scope, I know it will never regain its full value. I'm open to using aftermarket parts.

Could I do this for much cheaper than buying an original (of any variant - don't need the scope)? If I'm going to spend $800-900, I'll just buy one that hasn't been sporterized and have a real collector.

My other option is to improve it as a sporter. I'd replace the beech (I'm guessing) stock with a real walnut or laminate stock, upgrade the optics and mount, and replace the barrel if necessary. I still don't know just how well this thing shoots.

If it were yours, which would you do?
 
Is the rifle receiver an A4 receiver? Or is it stamped M1903 or M1903A3?

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EarlyM1903SerialNumber610-1.jpg

Any rifle with an original A4 receiver is worth restoring. There were very few of them made and even restored examples are worth more than the sum of their parts.

Parts costs have climbed since I bought parts, but I would expect that an A4 stock would be $500.00, handguards and metal $200.00, scope would be crazy high, maybe you are talking about $1500 easily depending on how many parts you would have to buy.

But, original A4's are in the thousands.
 
It's not an original A4. I was just thinking I could continue to make use of the holes. Obviously, it wouldn't have the correct mount, but I could get close.

I suppose I could have a 'smith fill the holes with solder and re-park it, but that seems to be extra money for no real gain. I haven't taken the bases off to see if any of the original stampings were damaged.
 
The first question is Who made it and when? If it's an early receiver without proper heat treatment; i probably wouldnt bother.

Also, hows the barrel? Original length? got some life left in it? Nothing worse than seeing someone dress up a mil surp for a lot of loot with a shot out barrel...

Personally, I'd set my high-dollar mark at $4-500, since you can find a matching, unmolested 1903A3 around $700...so 8-900 on a shooter/d&t'd gun not as collectible as a regular old 1903A3 doesn't make sense.

But if it's a fun project....have fun!
 
It's made by Remington. I've never looked up the year, since I knew it wasn't a collectible (in it's current state). I guess I have some homework to do tonight.

ETA: I forgot to add, the barrel was chopped. I'd have to replace it if I'm restoring it. It looks to be in good shape.
 
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The first question is Who made it and when? If it's an early receiver without proper heat treatment; i probably wouldnt bother.
Maybe. Not all of the early numbered '03s had that problem. I have one in the 479,xxx range and it's just fine. If it has the vent hole drilled into the receiver and the barrel looks well-shot, and the receiver hasn't yet shattered, it's probably fine.

Me, personally? I'd probably convert it back to original configuration.
 
I thought the one sure sign that an A4 is a fake is it being marked A4. I understood that A4s were actually marked A3 with the lettering being moved to the 1:30 to 2:30 position and rotated 90 degrees so as to be visable rather than under the scope mount.

Tapped and needing a new stock, barrel, and stock metal I would thing the best way to get your money from this is you want a real looking '03 would be to sell it and use the funds as a starting place for buying and un cut up rifle.

I might be tempted if it had the original stock cut down and original barrel cut not too short to try to make a Bushmaster as has been discussed here before rather than a normal 03. Those were cut down rifles used in the Panama Canal Zone during WWII that were locally carbonized. Some regular has a reproduction of one.

Unfortunately searching Bushmaster will give you 47 begillion AR15 hits.

-kBob
 
Mike, that's a really good looking stock, at a fair price.

kBob, that's an interesting idea. Looks kinda like the love child of an 03 and a Garand.
 
If it's a Remington, low numbers were never a problem--just Springfield and RIA.

CMP has commercial replacement barrels for $189.
 
OK, so I took the scope and bases off. It's an 03A3, S/S ~3.92M. Puts it at 1943, right?

It has a B&S bolt stamped "8620" if that makes a difference.
 
Outlaw Man, it appears to be a A4 as bolt is correct and the scope mount. I got one from a friend's estate about six months back. He removed the military stock and replaced it with a sporter stock and worked it to be a target rifle but did not touch the barrel. It is a 2 groove and I have seen him shoot it at 1000 yards several years back in our matches.

No telling what he did with the stock and the original scope as the original rings are with it.

If you pull the stock off to replace it I would appreciate a PM as I could use the stock as I got some drill rifles a few years back and rebarreled them but don't have a stock for the last one. I already have two cut off C stocks I found on ebay (makes me sick they were cut ) but just for something to hold the action/barrel a cut off works. thanks

PS by the way you made excellent trade as the 742 won't hold up long. My friend who worked at Ilion told me years ago they were only good for about 500 rounds. The action you have now is probably only good for 50 barrels haha
 
I always love when people bring up the "low numbered" deal.

If you are new to 1903's read this...been out a while.
I have a 500,000 range rifle...have shot it quite a bit with no problem, I will however state that I do use the same loading that I use in my Garand.

http://m1903.com/03rcvrfail/
 
I always love when people bring up the "low numbered" deal.

If you are new to 1903's read this...been out a while.
I have a 500,000 range rifle...have shot it quite a bit with no problem, I will however state that I do use the same loading that I use in my Garand.


Daffy Doc is just another fan boy justifying his use of low number 03’s. Daffy Doc’s statistics are based on Hatcher’s Notebook which is not an all inclusive list of all 03 failures. Hatcher’s list starts 1917 and ends 1929. There are known failures before and there are known failures after. Any risk calculations based on Hatcher’s Notebook are invalid and worthless.

Daffy Doc’s risk percentages are based on the total number of rifles built, not the rifles in use. There were about one million of these rifles built, but post WW1, there were never one million at service at any time. By the time you get to 1922 Congress authorized only 136,000 Officer’s and enlisted in the Regular Army. I could guess how many rifles were in service with an Army that small, and it sure would not be one million. Lets say, as a ridiculous example, that their were four rifles in use and the remaining one million in storage. Let also say that one of the four blew up. Daffy Doc’s analysis would give you the risk as one in a million. But for those rifles in use, it would be 25%.

Daffy Doc’s analysis also does not take into account the destruction of single heat treat receivers. As rifle came into depot, the Army scrapped these receivers. The population of these things liable to hurt someone just got smaller and smaller over time. Any risk calculation based on the total production is misleading because that is not the actual risk to the user. The user’s risk of harm is much higher. By what amount, I don’t know.


I am certain there are no databases extent which would allow the calculation of risk based on active duty rifles, but the Army had seen enough accidents and decided to take a course of action which would remove single heat treat receivers from the inventory.

Daffy Doc also says:
No receiver failures were reported in the training period before the battles, and during the four major battles that occurred in the seven month period in 1942-43. While it's not possible to estimate the exact number of rifles involved, up to 7,000 would have been in use by the three rifle regiments of the 1st Marine Division, Based on the failure rates of 1917-1918 between one and two rifle receivers would have been expected to fail.

Daffy Doc could not find any failure reports and is making the conclusion that absence proves no receivers failures. I disagree with this. The absence of records indicate the absence of records. The Army does not release safety failure reports to the public, never has. How Hatcher got his database I don’t know. But the guy was the head of the Ordnance Department during WW2 and was planning on writing more books after retirement.

There are buildings full of records that the US Army and Marine Corp have right now which Daffy Doc will never see. These records will be disposed of by the lowest cost method which will guarantee the least embarrassment later. Might as well ask Daffy Doc how long he maintains paper records of the patients he killed through incompetence. I will bet it won’t be decades.

There was a 1927 Army Board that recommended scrapping all low number 03’s in service because they were too dangerous and the bad ones could not be non destructively screened out. The recommendation was over ruled for monetary purposes. It was cheaper to injure Soldiers, Sailors, and Marines than replace the total inventory This was an immoral decision by an amoral General.

For those shooting low number receivers, until the thing blows, you just don’t know if you have a good one or a bad one. These actions were made of inferior, plain carbon steels, made under primitive process controls, they have no margin of safety if a case head ruptures, even good 03’s have poor gas handling characteristics, and if you get injured, the cost is all on you.
 
Thanks for the link.

ETA: You know, we've had some pretty shady people deciding what goes in the hands of our soldiers through the years. You'd almost think people would consider "mil-spec" a bad thing. We've managed to come out ahead for the most part, despite all the boondoggles.
 
You might have had some credibility if it was not for the name calling....shame, sounded like you knew what you talked about but had to lower yourself to mud slinging.

All I know is that guns do explode, be it to people being stupid or actual failures to the material in the gun itself this is not something unique to early 1903's. I also know mine has had no problems and the thought of it having a failure is no more or no less then any other 100 year old gun of any kind.

I will continue to shoot mine.
 
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