Rifle Die War

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RonPaul2008

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So I started out with some cheap Lee RGB dies for reloading, and now I feel I should upgrade to a nicer set? So can you tell me should I keep the same dies or upgrade to like a RCBS, Lyman, or Hornady...etc? I mainly just want some good dies that will last me a very very long time...hopefully till im 6ft under :)

Also what are the differences between a Redding die and a RGB Lee, is it the name? Do they seat the bullet depth more consistent...etc?

Thanks,

RP08
 
Other dies are a bit more polished inside, if you notice it will likely be with case resizing. You might experience your first broken decapper pin, or having the neck expander button loosen up in use, as most other die brands have 3 separate pieces that make up the decapping assembly. No aluminum parts, all steel. In my experience, unless you step up to the competition series, there will not be a noticeable difference in seating consistency. I know Lee dies feel cheaper, but chances are they will last just as long as other brands. The only thing that bugs me about them sometimes is that since they're not as well polished, the rifle brass sized with them might have a dull appearance after sizing. You can polish them yourself if you like, I've done it. That issue does not apply to carbide pistol dies - I always buy Lee for those.

For standard Rifle dies I like Hornady's seating die the best, but I'm not as crazy about their FL sizing dies. My ideal rifle die set would include a Redding FL sizing die, a Lee collet die and a Hornady seating die for every rifle caliber I own :D
 
Ifishsum has the absolute right of it and the mixed set he suggested is a great set. I have a similar mixed set for most of my rifle calibers.

I agree totally with the idea of mixing your die sets to get the best feel. What I've moved to is when I determine I'm always going to reload in a caliber, I begin to "tune" my die set so I'm satisfied with the dies and the operation.

I buy used dies in good shape in the brand I want to get the specific individual die I want to use in my "set" of dies for the specific caliber.

That way, I enjoy the best of all brands. You'll have to do a little research to find out what "options" are with each brand, but once you've done that, mixing and matching a specialized set is easy.

Regards,

Dave
 
I have used Lee, RCBS, and Dillon Dies. I recently purchased a set of Redding dies that I have not used yet (I still have to have a casting session to make the bullets). The Lee dies work very well. I wouldn't trade my other dies, each has a purpose. For handgun, Lee dies are excpetional for the money. My rifle dies are not Lee. For the .223 I wanted to use the RCBS X-die and for the 7.5 x 55, the Redding are exceptional, so I did not go with Lee for those calibers. I have RCBS dies 45-70. I bought them to experiment with RCBS dies.

Hope this helps
 
Want to "up-grade"? I can't help but wonder why. I mean, what would you expect to change? I have and use several brands of dies (Bonanza, Forster, Redding, Lyman, Herter's, CH, Wells, Ruhr-American, Lee, Savage, Hornady, Star, Bair, Lachmiller, Pacific and a couple of others I can't think of, some of them no longer in business) and they all work fine, never been able to measure any brand differences in the ammo any of them produce, not on average anyway. The Lee dies are as good as any other in my experience.

That said, there are certain die design feature differences some of us will prefer but that's simply a change and not a die quality issue, as such.

All you would "up-grade" to is a better polished exterior, so plan to pay for the level of shine you want and smile. You ain't NEVER going to wear any die out unless you have a commercial automated machine.

I often see snide comments about Lee's use of some alum alloy and plastic parts. I wonder how many of those who object to it in loading equipment shoot their ammo in plastic Glocks or rifles with alum bottom metal and frames. Personally, I don't mind non-steel parts in anything if it's properly designed and looks ok. Like, alum alloy scope tubes don't bother me at all!
 
The Lee dies are as good as any other in my experience.
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If that is true, why do Lee dies only have a 2 year warranty while for RCBS, Redding, Hornady and probably some others have a lifetime warranty? I just broke a Lee shell holder, by the way, while doing an operation that wasn't all that strenuous. If it had been an RCBS shell holder, I would have gotten another, no questions asked but I've had it for over 2 years.

I also have a variety of die sets. I don't think anything beats the Lee factory crimp die so I buy them even if their warranty indicates a lack of confidence in their product. As for new dies, I've been going more and more into the Redding camp.
 
How in the He-double toothpicks did you break a steel shell holder? Bit abusive?

I've been using the same Lee die sets for the last 20 years without failure. I don't have a dulling effect with my rifle dies either. Probably because I tumble them before and after I decap/resize them...Excellent product...
 
If that is true, why do Lee dies only have a 2 year warranty while for RCBS, Redding, Hornady and probably some others have a lifetime warranty?
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It's a simple matter of economics. If I don't have to replace products indefinitely I can charge less initially for the set. It doesn't mean they aren't as good or won't last as long. I've got LEE dies that I've had for 30 years without any significant wear or need to replace. In my experience I wouldn't spend an extra dime to move to let's say RCBS. I have nothing against RCBS and own many sets of their dies, presses, scales and like them. I just wouldn't spend extra to think I'm moving up with their product. Redding is a little different story. They are a little better finish. I don't own any high dollar custom dies so can't comment on making that jump.

Want to "up-grade"? I can't help but wonder why. I mean, what would you expect to change? I have and use several brands of dies (Bonanza, Forster, Redding, Lyman, Herter's, CH, Wells, Ruhr-American, Lee, Savage, Hornady, Star, Bair, Lachmiller, Pacific and a couple of others I can't think of, some of them no longer in business) and they all work fine, never been able to measure any brand differences in the ammo any of them produce, not on average anyway. The Lee dies are as good as any other in my experience.
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I agree completely though you own a couple of brands that I don't.
 
Redding Competition set or Forster Benchrest set.

Don't expect miracles. The barrel and bullet, and then the load, make the most difference.
 
A Kia has a better warranty than a Honda. Which is better?

Warranties are not entirely indicative of quality.

To the OP: have you wrung every last bit of accuracy out of your current dies?
 
I have and use Lee, Lyman, Lachmiller, Weatherby, Herters, C-H, Pacific, Hornady, Rcbs, Redding, and Simplex (australian brand) every one of them does the job well if they are set up as directed, every brand is slightly different but accomplishes the same job well. Some of them are well over 50 years old. UPGRADE? only to a different caliber, I never sell dies.
 
Walkalong said:
Don't expect miracles. The barrel and bullet, and then the load, make the most difference.
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And here I always thought the nut behind the trigger made the most difference.....

I don't have a problem with any of my Lee dies and I don't shoot well enough to think I'd notice a difference with any "upgrade".
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkalong
Don't expect miracles. The barrel and bullet, and then the load, make the most difference.
And here I always thought the nut behind the trigger made the most difference.....
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Apples and crabapples.

Walkalong is talking about mechanical or intrinsic accuracy potential. Sport45 is talking about human match or field performance.

An excellent article maybe 20+ years ago in the NRA's competition sheet (the one that lists match dates and locations) was headlines something like "How Small is Your Target?" Using handgun metallic silhouette as the backdrop, the author convincingly laid out a case for how "good enough to hold" whatever equals your 10-ring makes is necessary for the shooter to hold perfectly and have no wind call errors and no temp/velocity impact errors. A more accurate load, however, lets you have a bit of a wobble area and still score high.
 
I've used Lee, RCBS, Lyman, Hornady, and Redding at least, and they'll all work. The only ones I had trouble with with the Lee's trying to decap military '06 cases with crimped in primers - I could NOT get the collet tightened enough to decap them. The decapping stem just backed right out the top of the die. Lee's die "lock nuts" tend to unscrew when the dies are removed from the press which means that they have to be reset every time they're used. Those can be replaced with someone else's lock rings (I like RCBS's) though. Installing some 7/8" ID O rings (~3/32 -1/8 inch) under the lock rings helps them move into alignment to help keep the loaded rounds straight.

The finish inside and out is one reason that some dies are more expensive than others. If the Lee dies don't scratch or scrape your cases and otherwise you're happy with them I'd just replace the lock rings and keep going with them.

Cartridge OAL will vary depending on where the seater contacts the bullet's ogive, and individual bullet length. All bullets in the box aren't the same length, so there will be some variation no matter what seating die you use. If your ammo has to fit in a magazine set the OAL so that the longest loaded rounds fit. That's the only way I've ever figured out how to get everything to fit in a tight magazine.
 
I have never seen any advantages of RCBS dies over Lee dies, in fact the Lee dies have some nice features that the RCBS lack:

-A smoothly curved expander ball that causes less 'trauma' to the case neck.
-Seating depth is much easier to adjust with Lee dies.
-This is debatable but I prefer the Lee locking rings as they aloow the dies to 'float.' The RCBS locking rings are nearly useless as its almost impossible to get them to stay put without stripping out the little brass hex screw- lead shot or not under the screw. The Lyman rings are very good.

I've had a few problems, mostly with the collet dies. I've had my 6.5x55 die gall on me and the threads on the aluminum cap stripped out. The .308 die doesn't size the necks down enough to get good tension to hold the bullet. I know its easy enough to fix by sending it back or polishing it down, but its not worth my time. I also have a 7.62x54r die that I need to send back because it shaves brass at the casehead- to give Lee credit, I called them uop about it and they told me to send it back.
 
This is debatable but I prefer the Lee locking rings as they alow the dies to 'float.
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Man I'm glad to see someone that sees this feature as a plus besides me. I've mentioned how much I like LEE's rings in other threads and for the most part people think I'm nuts. I've changed every set of dies I own over the the LEE lock nuts (roughly 25 sets of dies. I think it's a great feature, I just don't have a problem with these nuts loosening up. RCBS rings came loose on me all the time.

The rings and LEE's decappers are my two favorite features when using their dies. The low cost of their dies makes these things a bargain. I've never broken a LEE die, I've broken several decapping pins in RCBS dies. RCBS is of course great with their warranty but in my estimation the best warranty in the world is the one you never have to use. The only thing I've ever needed beyond what normally comes with LEE's die sets was when reloading .50 BMG with A-MAX bullets. Their seater die was just wrong for the A-MAX bullet shape. I called them and they set me an A-MAX seater no charge.

I've modified LEE dies as well as RCBS, Dillon and Hornady in order to get a little more full length sizing potential out of the die but have seen similar problems in others dies. I don't attribute the problem to LEE dies only. My original post was merely to say that I don't think it's an upgrade to move from LEE to RCBS. I'll stand by that statement. RCBS makes very good dies but I've never found anything they could do that LEE dies couldn't and a little cheaper. Redding is another story.

I've gotten beyond the 2 year warranty thing because, knock on wood, I've never needed it.
 
Lee rings drive me insane. If you like to adjust them every time you use them, then I guess they are fine. I replace them immediately upon receipt.

Float to line up. arrgghhh. :)

Get a Bonanza press and use their rings. ;)
 
Lee rings drive me insane. If you like to adjust them every time you use them, then I guess they are fine. I replace them immediately upon receipt.
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They are a pain in the you know what to get adjusted the first time, but if you stick them in a turret, you're golden.

Float to line up. arrgghhh.
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LOL. I did mention that its a touchy subject, but it works for me.

Get a Bonanza press and use their rings.
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That is the only readily available press in existance that I would have confidence in to hit top dead center square every time.
 
+1 for the Forster Co-Ax (aka Bonanza).

I try not to look at what brands may be better or worse than others, but what features the dies have, and how well they are designed to solve particular problems. Other features like quality of finish (particularly on the inside where it counts) are also important to me, but not as much as the design.

There are a few different types of full length sizing dies, mostly varying in how they size the neck. Some use bushings that can be chosen specifically to get the right size if you turn your case necks to a consistent thickness; some can be used with or without expander buttons. Different brands use or offer different types/shapes of expander buttons that may be carbide coated to reduce friction and case length growth. Forster standard and RCBS Gold Medal dies use a raised expander button that starts expanding the base of the neck while the top of the neck is still held centered in the top of the die. RCBS X dies have a stepped mandrel that keeps the brass from growing in length as it is resized.

Seating dies vary mostly in how or whether the seating plug and bullet are aligned with the case neck prior to seating the bullet. Redding Competition series, RCBS Competition and Gold Medal series, Forster standard and Ultra series, and Hornady standard series dies have a sliding alignment sleeve to do the job, though the Hornady engages less of the body of the case with it's sleeve (it's also the least expensive of this type). The RCBS Competition and Gold Medal series are also "windowed" seating dies (the bullet is inserted into the side of the die above the press frame). Forster and Hornady are the only ones that offer this feature without the added expense of micrometer seating depth adjustment (both also offer optional micrometer adjustment) I'm not particularly fond of Lee seating dies, since they don't attempt to align the seating plug or bullet at all. In fact, they share the same seating plug across multiple calibers. They claim that they let the bullet "float" to align itself with the neck, but that has not been my experience.

Most neck sizing dies are slight variations of their maker's full length sizing dies that are just reamed larger for the body and shoulder so that they don't affect those parts of the case. They are available from some manufacturers as conventional or bushing type dies. A notable exception is the Lee Collet neck sizing dies, which uses a collet to size the neck on a mandrel.

I'm sure I've missed other features, but I hope this helps nonetheless...

Andy
 
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