rifle powder to reload .460s@w?

[bogus mcall]

I'm just wondering if I can use rifle powder to reload for a 460s@w rifle? The barrel length will be 24". The 460 was designed to be shot out of a short pistol barrel (relatively) and that is why the fast burning powder is used. Along with the large amount of powder comes a lot of pressure (65k). My question is could I not use load data from say the 45/70 too load the 460 s@w for a rifle and do it with a dramatic reduction in pressure? It just seems like it would work. Please let me know if I'm way out in left field on this, Thanks.

 

[Walkalong]

The powders generally used to reload .460, should do just fine in a longer barrel.

I suppose you could use a "fast" rifle powder to load for it, and possibly get more velocity, but without pressure equipment, I don't know if I would try. It's already very high pressure loads. Not much room for error.

 

[bogus mcall]

Thanks, but my thought was not to increase the velocity just to lower the pressure. It seems like there is a intrest in a lever action chambered in 460 s@w but nobody can get any to hold up because of the pressure. It just seems to me that you could duplicate or come really close to factory numbers but with less pressure.

 

[NCsmitty]

I concur with Walkalong, straight wall cases like the 460 S&W require faster burning powders compared to bottle neck cases of similar capacity. That's just the nature of the beast.

Here's a site with a good bit of info.

www.reloadammo.com/460sw.htm




NCsmitty

 

[R.W.Dale]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=480593&highlight=bilbo+baggins

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=498504&highlight=burnrate

a great thread and post about how burn rate relates to the cartridge and NOT bbl length

I think you'll find that with 460's expansive case that you get best performance from that narrow bur rate window that occupies the space between slow handgun powders and fast rifle powders say betwixt H110-296 and AA1680

You'll be shooting a Ruger No1 so why are you concerned about a 65K psi cartridge?

 

[bogus mcall]

Thanks, I will check out those links. I'm just wondering how the 460 differs from the 45/70. They appear very similar and are both strait wall cases. It seems that the 45/70 data should work for the 460 in a rifle.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Thanks, I will check out those links. I'm just wondering how the 460 differs from the 45/70. They appear very similar and are both strait wall cases. It seems that the 45/70 data should work for the 460 in a rifle.

case capacity for 460 S&W mag is 58.4grs of water with a 65,000 PSI SAAMI pressure rating


case capacity for 45-70 is around 80.0grs of water with a 28,000 PSI SAAMI rating

That's why the data is different

 

[rcmodel]

and that is why the fast burning powder is used.

No it isn't.
Powder selection for the .460 was based on case capacity & expansion ratio.
Not barrel length.

Whatever powder gives the highest velocity in a pistol will also give the highest velocity in a rifle.

If you want less pressure, use less of that powder.

rc

 

[kludge]

I think you'll find that with 460's expansive case that you get best performance from that narrow bur rate window that occupies the space between slow handgun powders and fast rifle powders say betwixt H110-296 and AA1680

You might go as fast as No.9 or as slow as 4198, but krochus is right on the money.

 

[bogus mcall]

Thanks for the info. I'm getting educated now. I figured there was a. Reason. I guess we still won't be getting a levergun in 460.

 

[bluetopper]

You will not get any more chamber pressure out of a rifle than you would out of a revolver. If lever guns are having a problem with pressure it is a fault of the rifle's design and not the powder used.

I shoot 500 S&W Mag gas check lead bullets out of a $300 single-shot Handi-Rifle with great results using various magnum pistol powders. All the powder is burnt in the 22" of barrel with minimal fire out the end even in dim light. Noise level is way down too.

 

[bogus mcall]

as far as the .500 s@w the pressure runs about 50k where as the .460 is 65k. H@R doesn't offer a .460 so the problem must be a common one.
I'm still not sure as to the reason why 45/70 data wont work. From reading you guy's answer's my best attempt at understanding is, the case capacity of the 460 is too small to hold the required amount of rifle powder that it would take to reach the desired velocity. Is this right? If not please someone explain it in simple terms, Thanks

 

[rcmodel]

Yes, thats right.

You can't get enough slower burning rifle powder, plus the bullet shank, in the .460 case to reach 45-70 performance levels.

rc

 

[R.W.Dale]

From reading you guy's answer's my best attempt at understanding is, the case capacity of the 460 is too small to hold the required amount of rifle powder that it would take to reach the desired velocity. Is this right? If not please someone explain it in simple terms, Thanks

Pretty much..If the case capacity is very similar and you are an experienced handloader sometimes data from one cartridge can be used as a guideline for working up loadings for a LARGER cartridge of the same caliber in a firearm of the same strength (Example: .450 marlin data in a 45-70 marlin or 308win data in 7.5x54MAS) Using the load for the smaller cartridge in the bigger case will result in less pressure because of the added case capacity. Vise Versa on the other hand should NEVER be done

AGAIN Two things you NEVER want to do is use data for the larger cartridge in the smaller case, lump cartridges togeather with case capacities much more than a few percentage points off from one another and attempt any such load reducing with powders like H-110 or WW296.

 

[bogus mcall]

Thanks guys. But that brings up another question. Why can u only reduce the powder amount of powder like aa#9, H110 or little gun just a small amount. Manuals say "never reduce below starting amounts" If a starting load say for a 44 mag is 18gr of H110 and a max is 23gr. why can u not reduce the load to say 14gr for a less powerful load. I know your not supposed to but tell me why. Thanks

 

[Walkalong]

AA #9 can be reduced within reason, but H-110/W-296 doesn't like to be reduced. It simply will not burn properly. If you want to download the caliber, a bit faster powder will do the trick.

 

[bogus mcall]

so it really wont hurt anything other than you wont get very good performance?

 

[Walkalong]

After re-reading your posts, I believe you just need to stick with what's in your manual. An experienced reloader would have no trouble downloading it a bit, but inexperienced folks who don't seem to want to believe what folks are posting, should just go by the book. IMHO of course.

 

[R.W.Dale]

I've heard that ww296/h110 can get real weird or even detonate if reduced. I personally don't wanna be the gunea pig who finds out first

 

[bogus mcall]

Thanks Krochus. And walkalong, i cant learn if i dont ask. Thanks anyway

 

[Jesse Heywood]

Manuals say "never reduce below starting amounts"

When you read that in a manual, pay close attention. It's there for a good reason. Some powders do not ignite properly with a reduced load. The result can be a violent burn that makes the gun go kaboom, similar to the results of a double charge. With the pressure levels in the 460, I wouldn't want to be holding the gun.

 

[bogus mcall]

Thanks, that makes sense. I will stick to the manuals, but I was just wondering why they say that.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The Hodgdon load data for the 460 Magnum does include fast rifle powders for the heavier bullets. (unless you consider H4227 a rifle powder) They list only "magnum pistol" powders with the lighter bullets but with bullets of up to 300gr. with 325gr bullet and heavier they have data for both IMR4198 and H4198. The pressure generated by using 4198 instead of the faster powders is markedly less according to Hodgdon.

 

[bogus mcall]

Thanks for the info!