Right ball mold for a '41 Springfield, '41 Mississippi rifle?

[wittzo]

Rather than buying a bunch of molds I can't use, I hope a bunch of knowledgeable folks could help me figure out the optimal balls to use for my "new" rifles.

I bought a Lee .533" Minie Ball mold and a .530" ball mold for my .54 Euroarms 1841 Mississippi rifle per Dixie Creek's recommendation, but someone told me I needed a larger Minie ball mold, like a .535"? I haven't tried the minie mold yet, hope it works.

My .60" balls are too small for the 1841 .69 Armi Sport Springfield, Blockade Runner from TN ( http://www.blockaderunner.com/Catalog/catalog.htm ) says that Armi Sport recommends a .678" round ball with a .010 patch.

Suggestions will be appreciated and researched. I'm not going to cast balls until I have the right mold for the Springfield, so I can do them all at once.

 

[110Redmen]

Wittzo:

For the Mississippi, it really depends on your barrel. Have you slugged the barrel to get a true and accurate inside diameter? My barrel in my mississippi measures .541, and I use a .540 mold and size to .539, for a 2 ring Gardener bullet.

As far as your smoothbore goes, if the barrel is .687 (most Italian-made smoothbores in .69 are close to this), you could use a Lyman or Rapine .678, and would not need a patch, but of course, you can always use one. Try a lube like liquid alox, which is very thin.

 

[wittzo]

Thanks, that's what I've been told..I can't remember who it is, but they had to use a .54X" mold for a minie ball, even though Dixie recommends a .533". I've already got the molds in before I found that out..the .530" round ball isn't that bad off, but the minie ball...

I was reading about paper patching, that might stabilize the bullet to make up for it's smaller diameter..and I'll use the softest lead I've got so the skirts flare into the rifling in the rear.

By the way, how would you slug the barrel on a muzzleloader. I know with a regular firearm, you have access to both ends of the barrel, so you can push a lead slug through with a loving caress of a hammer, if need be. How would you do that when only the muzzle is available? I've only got .60" round balls and .457..What some people do is just measure the muzzle with calipers..would that work?

 

[110Redmen]

Two ways...calipers on the lans, or a bore gauge. No matter what anyone suggests, barrels, by the same smith, are like fingerprints. You have to be willing to treat the barrel as a custom, and get its exact size...once you find that, the barrel is your friend. A good gunsmith will have a set of bore gauges, but the caliper way is almost as accurate, and might be more accessible.
Yes, soft lead is a must with the mississippi, along with good lube. Sizing dies are available, and if you get to the point where you need one, I have a source. I size with a 1/2 ton arbor press, using the die set in a jig...works pretty well. Paper patching? fire hazard depending on where you shoot.
As far as your smoothbore, try aluminum foil with lube over it. Lots of guys I shoot with swear by it, and no fire hazard. Plus you avoid any cook-off hazard by not having smoldering paper in the bore between shots. We load pretty fast, so if you have a lot of time between shots, might be ok, but to my thinking, not worth the risk.

 

[mykeal]

By the way, how would you slug the barrel on a muzzleloader

Use a product called Cerrosafe; Brownell's sells it, among others. They also have a little tutorial about how to use it; just click on the link.

The only trick with a muzzleloader is plugging the bore a few inches down from the muzzle. I use a large cotton shop swab with a wire handle and a heavy felt wad that's bore diameter; slice the wad to slip it on the wire down to the swab ball, then insert the assembly in the bore leaving the loop exposed so you can pull it back out.

 

[Shotgun Willy]

I had a similar problem with my Zouave. The simplest thing I found, was to load a very light load of powder, and fire it into a half barrel of water. I stood up on my deck, mentally crossed my fingers, and pulled the trigger. The gun went 'bloop', and there was my bullet in the bottom of the barrel, caliper ready.

Edited to add: Just make sure you've got enough powder, for the ball to make it out of the barrel.

 

[110Redmen]

While the cerrosafe may work fairly well, I wonder if it would address the tendency for some barrels (especially Italian) to have some variation in the diameter from breech to muzzle...this was a real problem with an Italian Smith Carbine a while back. Seems that when the owners slugged the bore, the bullet started tight at the breech, and half way through it literally coasted through the barrel, and then got tight again at the muzzle...these were all subsequently replaced by the manufacturer. Unfortunately, unless you can easily remove the breech plug to slug it, your options are a bit limited to the ones that have already been discussed. Also, would that help in barrels with progressive depth rifling?

 

[mykeal]

What do mean by "While the cerrosafe may work fairly well, I wonder if it would address the tendency for some barrels (especially Italian) to have some variation in the diameter from breech to muzzle"?

Cerrosafe doesn't repair anything - it's simply a tool to use in measuring the inside diameter of a tube. I'm not sure what it is you're expecting it to do. If you're asking whether or not it will identify an area of inconsistent dimension, I'd have to respond that it will accurately replicate the inside diameter of the tube at any location you choose to place it when it's liquid and allow it to harden. How many places you put it, how you hold it there to harden and how you remove it is up to you. Is that what you mean by "address the tendency"?

 

[Hawkeye748]

What he is refering to is that he might not get an accurate reading because of the poor quality of several Italian barrel makers. There have often been barrels that are not consistent in diameter through the length of the barrel. This is one issue I have with Italian guns. I have seen this on the Smiths, revolvers, Enfields, Zouave and Mississippi barrels.

After the Smith fiasco of several thousand screwed up barrels, the quality has improved some what, but I am told this has happened before. They tighten up for a while and then relax and history repeats itself. Their main market in this country is Re-Enactor and they don't care about accuracy. In Europe it is shooting. I have been told (by someone in position to know) that what happens is periodically, they dump the returns/seconds on the US market, at discounts, knowing that only about 10-15 % will ever be returned because of barrel faults. This is the reason you see so many broken springs, poor fit, etc. with Italian guns. They even did this with the Smiths that were poorly barreled.

Check them close and you can get good ones, But be wary of Italian imports.

 

[wittzo]

I mic'd it with a caliper, but with the odd numbered rifling, it was tough to do. It mic'd at about .540 at the muzzle.

I've heard of Cerrosafe. I've read that it shrinks when it cools off by a good percentage. All the references I read about it have you send your cast slug to a mold manufacturer so they can match it with an existing product, or make you a set of custom molds.

I'm going to give the aluminum patches a try, foil is cheaper than sending back the molds. Shipping them back and ordering a replacement mold would cost as much as the right sized mold.

I had no luck at all with casting today. I got a new Lyman lead pot and a new Lyman lead dipper with the pour spout. It was raining and drops were landing where I usually cast bullets, so I went to a dry part of the porch to cast. The stove was at a 90 angle to the house and was flaring up like crazy, so I took a piece of tin stove pipe and cut it to make a wind shield. It still didn't work well. I had lumps of partially melted lead floating around, the dipper never got hot enough. I have an old dipper I would put my ingots into and sit it straight on the eye to melt and pour from the dipper into the mold. I wanted to get fancy with that new one, so I used my new pot that came in this morning. I guess having the stove at that angle made the wind too strong. I cast more than a dozen poorly shaped balls and realized I was just wasting my time. I hope it was just the way the stove was setting, I usually cast near perfect ones after a half dozen to warm the mold up.

 

[110Redmen]

Just for grins, try heating the mold with a propane torch. If you are patient and get it hot enough, you can cast a good one the first time. And whatwever ya do, make sure your pot isnt in the way of raindrops....one drop in a hot pot will give you a lead shower that you may not walk away from.

If the barrel mic's at .540, then you have a place to start. Try an off the shelf .540 mold, and size the bullet down to .539 or .538...this can be done as mentioned earlier with a sizing die. Then you can shoot 5 shot "relays" to see how it is grouping. Use varying loads, i.e. 5 shots with 45 gr 3F, 5 shots with 50gr 3F, etc. Your barrel will tell you what it likes. Once you find a load and size that works....dont abandon it..even if you dont shoot it well every once in a while...shoot through the problem, not around it. I have had some good success with a .540 Lyman mold that casts a 2 ring Gardener bullet with a thick (1/8") skirt...never thought it would work that well, but I was wrong.

 

[wittzo]

After I repaired a bad rubber washer in my Coleman propane stove, I melted lead and cast bullets from nearly 9 am to 2 pm. It was so satisfying and fun, I lost track of time.

I cast about 40 .530 round balls for the '41 Mississippi rifle and my '55 Dragoon Carbine Pistol, 40 .533 Minie balls for the '41, 30 .68" balls for my '42 Springfield musket, and more than 160 .454" balls for my '58 Remington, until I ran completely out of lead. So far, I've only had to set aside one .68" ball, a few .454's and a few .530's to re-melt because the mold wasn't hot enough. I had to get a bag mold for the .68, it was casting perfectly, once I got used to it. I cut the sprues off while waiting for another pair of ingots to melt. I used about 8 lbs of lead.

I was able to put a new crack in my 10" steel gong at 50 yards with the .41, hitting it with both the minie ball and the round balls and completely demolished a 2 liter Coke bottle. No telling what I'll do when I tweak the loads. The .69 also did some damage to the gong. There was a wad of lead embedded in a crater big enough to cast another .45 bullet.

I'm happy.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

I'm late to the party but my Mississippi does fine with a ticking patch and a .530 ball. Got a fat doe with it last year too...

 

[wittzo]

I was using a scrap of some cotton muslin. I haven't measured it's thickness, but it was snug going down the bore. I made some paper cartridges out of rolling papers last night using the .68 and .533 minie balls. I had then handy and didn't feel like cutting paper unless I had a template. The paper will keep the egg shaped .68 ball stable so i won't have to hammer it in place like the first time.

I'm going to make a cone out of a 3/4 inch dowel rod and try it with typing paper like I read on another site, make the cartridges tapered so they go down the barrel, but I tapered the ones I made. I had good luck with them with my cap and ball revolver, they should work well with these rifles. I'll run a worm down the barrel to make sure there's no debris left in them when I reload. Lots of guys recommend running a mop down the bore to tamp out any embers that will make the next powder charge exciting.

 

[wittzo]

Pictures of my bullets and paper cartridges

Made a new thread

 

[langoley]

As far as the "italian" smith carbines, they were sold by Navy arms mainly,and there IS a fix for them!! I have done it.You can make a "slug" from harder lead and then lap the barrel out,they were only about .002-.003 out.It takes time but it can be done,especially when you can get a "new" smith for $200-$300 off.