Rook And Rabbit Rifles

[ThomasT]

Does anyone have a Rook & Rabbit rifle? I have been intriuged by these guns for years. I have some old Handloaders Digest (i think) with articles by Colin Greenwood, an Englishman and he writes of the loads and the uses of these guns. Like keeping Rabbits out of the warren. (What the hell is a "warren"?)

Anyway i bought a Marlin 1894 in 32 mag and with some of my light loads with about 2.5 grs bullseye and a 76 gr lead it is almost silent. This renewed my longing for one of these guns. I think the rise of the 22 sort of killed them off. I would realy like a single shot NEF in 32 mag. Any input?

 

[eliphalet]

Warren;
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
war·ren /ˈwɔrən, ˈwɒr-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[wawr-uhn, wor-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a place where rabbits breed or abound.

Isn't a Rook a bird kinda like a Crow? If so a Savage 24 might be a good choice. for Rooks an Rabbits.

 

[elmerfudd]

I think the rise of the 22 sort of killed them off.

I'd guess it had to do with silencers. They're used very widely in the UK. You might not be able to buy anything that shoots over 12 foot pounds without permits and legal hassles, but you can buy silencers there over the counter or through the mail.

 

[elmerfudd]

I think the rise of the 22 sort of killed them off.

I'd guess it had to do with silencers. They're used very widely in the UK. You might not be able to buy anything that shoots over 12 foot pounds without permits and legal hassles, but you can buy silencers there over the counter or through the mail.

 

[SDC]

These were the "varmint rifles" of their day, used mainly for crows, foxes, large rodents, etc. Most of them were single-shot falling-blocks, but they were most common in England up until the 1920s or so (which, co-incidentally I'm sure, was when England started passing many of their "gun control laws"). You could get them in a variety of calibres, from rimfires up to around .38 Special-power-level straight-wall centrefires. They also seem to have been directed at the teen-age male market.

 

[browningguy]

I've got a couple of them. They were called Rook rifles as they were designed for shooting crows as mentioned. The .22 short had nothing to do with their demise, just time marching on and beter calibers became available. They were made in a lot of oddball black powder rounds originally including .25-.38 calibers.

This one is an odd type of Martini Henry action with an exposed center hammer in 360 no. 5, bore measures .386", I make cases from .380 center fire and swage the lead bullets.



Here is all three of mine, the one on the top is not really a rook rifle, it's chambered in .300 Sherwood which was more of a light game rifle. Bottom one is in .380 Long centerfire.

 

[Kimber1911_06238]

interesting rifles browningguy....I learned something new today

 

[ThomasT]

Thanks everybody. I know what the guns were and yes they were the English answer to the varmit rifle. You can get a 357 barrel for the NEF rifle and be on the way to a R&R rifle. That was considered the upper limit for bore size.

Most were around 25 to 30 caliber. I don't think they were suppressed. Thats why i was so impressed with my 94 in 32 mag. The velocity with the listed load was 1050 fps or so and was very quiet. I suppose it would make less noise than a similar sized bore in an air rifle and goes a lot faster. I just like the idea of a single shot rifle.

I have tried light loads in my Marlin 357 but they have always been much louder. Also Eliphat mentioned the Savage 24. I have one i bought off of GB that is unfired. I plan to rectify that failing as soon as possible. Its a 22 mag over 20 ga by the way.

Gil Sengel of Rifle and Handloader made one on a Martini action a while back. It was chambered in 357. Its an interesting article if you can find it.

Anyone have a single shot 25-20?

 

[glennser]

Not much to add, simply that I understood "Rooking" took place when the young birds where out of the nest but too young to fly, making a great, if cruel, shooting gallery for local villagers, I was originally told that heavy slow bullets were used to limit their range.
Glennser

 

[ThomasT]

Hello Browninguy.

I was writing while you were posting, but yes thats what i'm talking about. In the first thread i didn't actualy say "22 short" i said "sort of was the end of rook rifles. That and crazy English gun laws. The author mention is the one who stated 22s replaced the traditional R&R rifles.

Thanks for posting the picks. Those are nice looking guns. Thats i'm looking for except in a modern round. Some of those english chamberings were exclusive to the gunmaker so they could lock you into buying ammo from them. Wev'e never heard of that before have we?

 

[Brian Williams]

I wish that the US arms manufacturers would back off from the biggest and baddest super blamooow-ubertacticool magnum and come out with some medium to small case size rifles in single shot falling/rolling block and single shot bolt actions. I would love to have a single-shot bolt action in 38 spec with a threaded barrel.

 

[ThomasT]

Thanks eliphat for clearing up that business about the warren. I guess they don't keep the rabbits out of the warren. They wait till they poke their little pink noses out and then blast em'.

Colin Greenwood stated that the rabbits and rooks were eaten but that after a while the meals would become tiresom. I wonder if that nursery rhyme about ten and twenty blackbirds baked into a pie is about Rook pot pie?

 

[sixgunner455]

Four and twenty, not 10 and 20.

 

[browningguy]

And by the way, I think something in .32 mag would make a great Rook/rabbit rifle, as would a .357 mag/.38 special. If you look at most of the old rounds they were using lead round nose bullets at 1200-1500 FPS, in weights appropriate for the bore. You should be able to easily replicate that with the above modern rounds.

 

[macFarlaine]

Rabbits live in holes (warrens),rooks are part of the crow family and live in rookerys.Rook rifles were used to shoot rooks from rookeries.Most were bored out to .410 or 28b,after WW2.I have one original left made by Holland and Holland,I am un decided wether I should have it changed to a 28b.We now use .410 or .22 rifles for rabbit control,we also leave the rooks alone.

 

[pinotguy]

Ballard Rifles offers a "modern" version of a Rook & Rabbit. Not exactly inexpensive but interesting and cool nonetheless. One of those in 38 Colt (Short or Long) would be pretty sweet.

 

[ThomasT]

Sixgunner thanks for the update on the rhyme. Believe it or not i don't go around singing that one much anymore.

 

[Fosbery]

 

[Oohrah]

A warren is where wabbits live, and a rook is an area where certain birds
gather to nest to give birth to younger birds. That area called rookery.
Those rifles were also called garden guns and were short ranged to protect
family plot gardens. I can't think of any caliber that was not very short
range and fairly noise free, as the targets were those small animals that
would eat up their gardens if left to dine!

 

[macFarlaine]

A garden gun is a 8mm,I will post a picture tomorrow.

Correction:9mm

 

[Fosbery]

Actually garden guns are different to rook and rabbit rifles. Rook and rabbits are generally in small, high velocity rounds like .22 long rifle and .300 British (which definitely deserved to have been more widely used), designed to shoot rabbits and birds at a good distance. Garden guns were usually chambered in relatively large but low powered cartridges like 9mm rimfire or .32 shotshells. They were designed to shoot rabbits, hares, rats, mice, squirrels and other pests in gardens without damaging vegetables, flowerbeds etc, and without the danger of doing through a fence and hitting the next door neighbour.

 

[toivo]

Nice rifle, Fosbery. Martini Model 6?

 

[Jim Watson]

I think it was W.W. Greener said the ideal rook and rifle bullet would shoot with good force and great accuracy to 100 yards and then drop to the ground. The then complaint with .22 rimfire was that it had too little power close and too much range.

 

[Brian Williams]

Here is a pic of the ballard rook and rabbit rifle, price tag $3950