S&W 642-1 not rated.

[tws3b2]

My 642-1 is also not roll marked with +P on the barrel or elsewhere. When I called S&W years ago and asked them about it the rep told me same thing they told the OP. Paperwork in mine is exact same as the OP's. Bought the gun NIB in May 1997...I think.

On the right side of your 642-1 in front of the trigger is yours stamped S&W USA or is it stamped Made in USA?

View attachment 970539

 

[fxvr5]

Did you read the Shooting With Hobie that I linked above? The 38 Special wasn't invented to be a 38 Colt match but an improvement. And it was until the 1970s or so. Then the velocity was lowered. I have read that it was reduced to protect the J-Frame guns from damage. But I have no way to back that up. Just telling you what I have read.

I read part of that link. I gave up because there was too much BS in it. It reads like a rant from a delusional conspiracy theorist who has no idea what they are talking about. He/she gets basic 38 Special information wrong. I don’t know if he/she is clueless or lying. Hard to tell with conspiracy theorists.

Example, he/she shot some 110 grain Treasury Load +P+ ammo and was expecting 1300 fps but only got 1100 fps. Don’t know why he/she expected 1300 fps. The 38 Special 110 grain +P+ Treasury Load specs are for 1,155 fps from a 4” barrel and 990 fps from a 2” barrel. This comes from a recent article in the February 2021 Shooting Times. So I guess the expectation of 1300 fps came from Mars or Jupiter or wherever he/she get their ideas. It’s not from this planet.

Another example; He/she whines about factory 38 Special ammo producing only 16,500 psi pressure, which is so far from the SAAMI pressure limit for the 38 Special, which he thinks is 21,500 psi. That’s why he/she says it’s so underpowered. However, the SAAMI pressure limit of the 38 Special is 17,000 psi, and 20,000 psi for the +P version. https://saami.org/wp-content/upload...FP-and-R-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf So, 16,500 psi is just right for a limit of 17,000 psi.

I quickly got tired of the rant after that. I wasn’t going to waste any more time on it. He/she had thoroughly discredited theirself already.

At least you have chronoed your loads and have real velocity speeds to post. But from that barrel length you should be getting over 900fps. If you ever see any for sale get some of the Sellier & Bellot 38 special round nose loads and test them. I have two boxes left and they are way more powerful than the Remington 158gr SWC loads I have on hand. Those were a real eye opener for me when I fired the first cylinder full. It was then I realize how weak modern 38 special was by comparison.

It should be over 900 fps according to who? You? Forgive me if I don’t consider you an expert on this subject. The 860 fps would be in the ballpark range of an additional 2.5” of barrel.

With respect to the S&B 38 Special ammo, they list on their website 158 grain bullets at from 889 to 997 fps, from a 7.5” barrel. https://www.sellierbellot.us/products/pistol-and-revolver-ammunition/pistol-and-revolver-cartridges/ Cut that down to what a 4” barrel will produce (the usual barrel length used for testing ammo in the USA) and they are more comparable. Say, 50 fps per inch, so subtract 175 fps from the fastest 997 and you get 822 fps for a 4” barrel. Did you chronograph it?

S&B likely uses CIP pressure specs for their loads, which is 1500 bar = 21,755 psi for the 38 Special. https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/uploads/tdcc/tab-iv/tabivcal-en-page57.pdf Since the SAAMI limit is 20,000 for the +P, the CIP ammo could be more equivalent to SAAMI +P. Remington lists their standard pressure 38 Special 158 gr lead SWC at 755 fps, and their +P 158 lead SWC at 890 fps. That puts the S&B and Remington +P in the same range.

I’ll look for the S&B and try to get some when this panic buying thing subsides. Thanks for suggesting it.

 

[ThomasT]

It should be over 900 fps according to who? You? Forgive me if I don’t consider you an expert on this subject.

You asked for information and I gave you what I had. I never ever claimed to be an expert. Never have and never will. And I have never considered you an expert either. Just another guy on a gun forum with an opinion. The information is worth exactly what you paid for it.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Here is a tidbit I read on the internet that I will post to elicit a bit more lively discussion.

It has been said that the SAAMI Max pressures were lowered in the 80s sometime for the sake of the weaker built Charter Arms revolvers of the day. (Not verified by me or anyone else that I am aware of)

Also, the conventional wisdom once said that any S&W with a model number is rated for +P. (Also not confirmed in any way)

However, through a whole bunch of anecdotes on the webs, one thing keeps cropping up. Older, standard pressure 38 Spl loads seemed to be more powerful. Almost like they were loaded to the very threshold of the SAAMI max.

Nowadays they are not but +Ps are loaded near (or just above) the SAAMI max for standard pressure 38 special and a few thousand psi lower than max for +P. One could infer then that +P loads are then, in fact, mildly loaded. That is all though. There is not evidence in these pressures to indicate the standard 38 Spl of years back was equal to the 38 Spl +P of today.

Also there is the problem of CUP vs PSI through the ages.

I do have a related personal opinion and anecdote on this matter as well.

Opinion- The way in which a company will rate a particular gun for “limited use” of a particular ammo is a raving crock. Build the gun to a standard for Pete’s sake and not a price point.

Anecdote- I have put almost 1000 +P rounds through my S&W model 38 Airweight of late 1960’s manufacture. I bought the gun in 2009 so who knows how many rounds have been shot through it. I have shot several thousand standard pressure rounds through it as well and it seems to be hungry for more of each. My Model 60 (all steel and also a J frame) has had a similar life.

 

[tws3b2]

Ok, S&W says my 642-1 came to life on 7-15-1997. Apparently "Before" the model was rated for +P. Also, on the right side, just in front of the trigger my 642-1 is stamped "
Made In USA.
Marcas Registradas.
Smith&Wesson.
Springfield , Mass.
S&W says that was changed to.
SPLD, MA.
S&W USA.
Around 2000. But not sure.
I've had my 642-1 for around 8 years. I bought it from a gun shop on consignment. It was in new condition in original plastic box with original booklet. The booklet said model 642 but said nothing about 642-1.

 

[cfullgraf]

The booklet said model 642 but said nothing about 642-1.

With S&W revolvers, the dash number indicates engineering changes to the model except for one or two models. See below for the exceptions.

I've never seen a manual that I remember seeing the dash number referenced in the manual. It does not mean they do not exist including the dash number, but I have slept since I last looked a an S&W manual and do not remember. Generally, the engineering changes are not referenced in the manuals. But, when the engineering change includes a cartridge change, like from 38 Special to 38 Special +P, one would expect the manual would be updated regardless whether the dash number is included or not.

Frequently, manuals have a date on it that indicates when the manual was originally printed but not always. It would be interesting to see if your manual for your 642 is dated.

Side note on S&W dash numbers. The dash numbers on the Model 25's do indicate the cartridge the gun is chambered for. The Model 25-2 is chambered for 45 ACP and the Model 25-5 is chambered for 45 Colt. Both were manufactured concurrently. There may be some others as S&W's model number convention goes off the rails sometimes.