S&W Revolver with limited markings

[Pizzapinochle]

I’ve done some research on a revolver I am considering buying, just want to check it with the more knowledgeable folks around here.

S&W
Short barrel
Nickel Finish
Serial 576XXX
“N” mark on the frame under the cylinder’s swing arm

From my research, that makes it approximately a 1939 date of manufacture N-Frame.

Not in amazing shape, but the asking price is about $320, which seems in line for S&W revolvers.

Weird thing is, there are no markings of any sort on the barrel, and no indication of the caliber. It is obviously a .38 or .357, but don't they normally mark which one it is?

Trying to decide between this and two other S&Ws…

One is a Highway Patrol model 28-2 .357 that has been nickel plated (I am assuming it is not one of the very rare original nickel plated ones, although I should go and check to make sure…), the other is a pencil barrel .38 that is in very good shape. But, they are asking $400 for either of those.

 

[rcmodel]

Not original.

A S&W would have centered markings on the barrel indicating the caliber on the right side and S&W on the left side.

It has either been cut off behind the markings?
Or re-barreled with a non-S&W barrel.

Also, the N stamped inside the crane cut does not indicate the frame size.

Your serial number is outside any N frame produced between 1906 and 1946, when the S serial prefix started.
And if it doesn't have the S, it doesn't have the positive hammer block drop safety.

So I don't know what it is, but most likely an older K-frame.

But regardless, I would not buy it.

rc

 

[Pizzapinochle]

Thanks for the info RC.

I pulled my date from this listing, that seemed like it was well researched:

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/68254-How-to-Identify-Date-a-S-amp-W

Pre-War N frame.

Year/Beginning Serial

1908….. 1-------------1926….. 25000
1909….. 2050----------1927….. 28500
1910….. 5000----------1928….. 29500
1911….. 7050----------1929….. 30000
1912….. 9100----------1930….. 34000
1913….. 11150---------1931….. 36000
1914….. 13200---------1932….. 38375
1915….. 15250---------1933….. 41200
1916….. 15500---------1934….. 43350
1917….. 16000---------1935….. 45500
1918-1919 None--------1936….. 47200
1920….. 16200---------1937….. 48700
1921….. 16300---------1938….. 52000
1922….. 18400---------1939….. 57200
1923….. 19600---------1940….. 59000
1924….. 20800---------1941….. 62350
1925….. 22000---------1942-1945 None

....AND.... I just realized that 1939 is 52,700, NOT 527,000.

Now I am curious and I am going to go back and look at it, see if I can confirm your suspicions or get more information.

 

[rcmodel]

Yes it is!!

rc

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Weird thing is, there are no markings of any sort on the barrel, and no indication of the caliber. It is obviously a .38 or .357, but don't they normally mark which one it is?

The .357 mag case was lengthened specifically to prevent it from mistakenly being loaded into a .38 special revolver, and had nothing to do with the loading specs. So if a .357 is too long to chamber, you know it is a 38 special. I doubt it would be a 38 Colt or 38 S&W.

I wouldn't touch a gun like that. Who knows what has been done to the internals.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

If you want to do some serious research on S&W revolvers so you know what you are buying, don't rely on information posted on internet forums. Buy this book. It is the most authoritative book on the market today.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/standard-catalog-of-smith-wesson-jim-supica/1100489195?ean=9780896892934

 

[Jim Watson]

And that not much.
I have one and it is better than nothing, but the guys on the S&W board come up with all sorts of fascinating stuff that is not in the book. I guess they have an advanced collector's network or access to documents that I don't.

 

[tipoc]

The Standard Catalog is the major source for useful information on the guns for any gunny. But the S&W forum is a close followup.

There is a S&W Collectors Association and many members there hav been at it for decades so there is a wealth of knowledge available.

tipoc

 

[Ron James]

A picture would be nice and maybe answer some of the questions

 

[TanklessPro]

Pizza
PM Radagast and he can give you all sorts of info on that Smith. Not to say someone else does not know, but he knows a lot.

 

[Jim K]

Are you sure it is even an S&W and not a cast iron Spanish copy?

FWIW, the N marked under the crane meant the gun was to be nickel plated. The frame had to be given extra attention to make up for the thickness of the nickel plating.

Jim

 

[Radagast]

Best guess is its a .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 4th Change, the ancestor to the Model 10.
Serial numbers in the 358xxx range shipped December 1920, in the 624xxx range in 1932.
If stamped Made in the USA, its post May 1922. If no stamp, then pre May 1942.
If a large button ejector rod, then >1930. If a straight ejector rod then <1930.
Regardless, the two inch factory barrel was not introduced until July 1938, so it has been cut down or re-barreled.
If there is no barrel lug at the end of the ejector rod then I would not buy it at all.

 

[Pizzapinochle]

Went back and checked it out, definitely appears the barrel was cut down and a new sight welded into place. They did a decent job of it, but does not appear to be factory.

Pretty sure no barrel lug for the ejector rod, definitely not buying it at this point, but it was interesting researching it.

Only new markings I noticed are a P and a V on the rear of the cylinder, between the chambers.

Also checked out the other two. The Highway Patrol was definitely an aftermarket plating, the hammer was plated (which was not factory on the super rare nickle plated) and the plating was flaking off all over.

N157XX Serial number on that one, so 1970-72, right?

I am sure it would be a decent shooter, but nothing special.

The prettiest of the three is a D series K Frame, serial D444xxx. Would the nickel plating on that be original? It is in darn good shape and the nickel is very clean. Not sure if it is worth the $400 regardless, but a very pretty gun.

 

[Radagast]

1973 for the N frame, 1972 for the K frame. $400 is probably a bit high, even in near new condition. If it floated my boat I would consider it as nickel is less common than blued.

 

[highpower]

FYI, there are MAYBE 2 or 3 factory nickel plated Model 28's in existence. Chances are nearly %100 that any nickel plated M28 has been plated after it left the factory. If it was refinished at the factory, there will be rework marks on the grip frame under the stocks. They will include a "R-N" and a month/year date stamped like this "574", which would stand for May, 1974.

Generally speaking, it takes someone with experience to be able to spot a refinish, unless it is a very poor job. You already said that the hammer was nickel plated which says to me that the refinish was done by someone that didn't really know what they were doing.

Nevertheless, Model 28's are great guns and if the price was right ($300 or so), I would buy it for a shooter.

 

[TanklessPro]

Best guess is its a .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 4th Change, the ancestor to the Model 10.
Serial numbers in the 358xxx range shipped December 1920, in the 624xxx range in 1932.
If stamped Made in the USA, its post May 1922. If no stamp, then pre May 1942.
If a large button ejector rod, then >1930. If a straight ejector rod then <1930.
Regardless, the two inch factory barrel was not introduced until July 1938, so it has been cut down or re-barreled.
If there is no barrel lug at the end of the ejector rod then I would not buy it at all.

Radagast
Quite impressive, but I would not expect anything else. I wish I knew 10% of what you do.

 

[Jim K]

The P and V are probably British proof and view marks. The gun may have been sent to England in the WWII era (perhaps Lend Lease) and later brought back here. Most were in .38 S&W caliber. Many of those guns had the barrels cut down and the front lock eliminated to create "detective" guns. Someone later decided to put on a longer barrel and used an old one that was handy, possibly not even knowing about the front lock.

The gun is now (IMHO) junk, and should be avoided.

Jim