Stephen A. Camp
Moderator In Memoriam
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2002
- Messages
- 2,430
It means that it will fire either standard pressure or +P ammunition.
S&W: what does "+P Only" mean?
- Thread starter MikeJackmin
- Start date
- Status
ArchAngelCD
Member.
RoyalScam,
The frame type has nothing to do with the ammo shot in the revolver, the frame strength does.
The Airweight M637 Chief's Special, M638 Bodyguard and M642 Centennial are all rated for .38 Special/.38 Special +P and weigh 15oz.
The Airlite M340 Centennial and M360 Chief's Special are both .357 Magnum revolver weighing only 12oz. (stronger alloy)
The Steel M36 Chief's Special is a .38 Special but the Steel M60 Chief's Special is a .357 Magnum.
The Steel M640 Centennial and Steel M649 Bodyguard are both .357 Magnums.
My info came directly from S&W back when the Airlite Ti first came out.
Bullet setback in CERTAIN lightframed Js was the reason for their cautionary advisory, and it was entirely because of the frames' weight & recoil characteristics.
Denis
Bullet setback in CERTAIN lightframed Js was the reason for their cautionary advisory, and it was entirely because of the frames' weight & recoil characteristics.
Denis
farscott
Member
I just got e-mail from S&W Customer Service. Here was my original mail.
I will quote what was sent:
I will quote what was sent:
Take it for what it is worth.
Snowbandit
Member
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2007
- Messages
- 314
The early model 640 revolvers were laser engraved on the frame "tested for +P+. Mine has digested plenty of it without any problems. Of course, the same gun now, with a slightly longer cylinder, is chambered for .357 Mag so the frame is certainly strong enough.
Then did you ask them why any of their revolvers might be marked +P Only?
Doesn't appear to me that the original question was answered by this generic response from S&W.
And, if you were refering to me, it isn't "my" claim, it was Smith & Wesson's, as I said.
If they've since changed their position, that's fine.
At the time I worked with my AirLite Ti when the model was new, S&W told me directly that they recommended the titanium cylindered Airweights be used ONLY with jacketed +P loads, for the reason I gave you.
Otherwise, you might ask them again to clarify why their website lists models as "+P Only". If those don't require +P, perhaps S&W should change the descriptor.
Denis
Doesn't appear to me that the original question was answered by this generic response from S&W.
And, if you were refering to me, it isn't "my" claim, it was Smith & Wesson's, as I said.
If they've since changed their position, that's fine.
At the time I worked with my AirLite Ti when the model was new, S&W told me directly that they recommended the titanium cylindered Airweights be used ONLY with jacketed +P loads, for the reason I gave you.
Otherwise, you might ask them again to clarify why their website lists models as "+P Only". If those don't require +P, perhaps S&W should change the descriptor.
Denis
In a further effort to try to clear up the "+P only" designations on S&W's website, I have an email RFI in to somebody who's in a better position to get a definitive answer to the question than S&W's CS people. I generally find that, helpful though they try to be, the CS people often know little about subjects beyond their immediate sphere of influence.
On a related note, in looking through the vault for something else I actually found the box my AirLite Ti came in, which I'd forgotten I had, and which included a small folder dealing specifically with the AirLite Ti and not lumping it in with the usual generic one-size-fits-all manual now shipped with most S&W revolvers.
In that folder it says, in part:
"The Titanium Cylinder used in your AirLite Ti revolver weighs approximately 60% of what a similar Stainless Steel cylinder weighs...."
"AMMUNITION WARNING FOR .38 S&W Spl. AirLite Ti Revolvers ONLY"
"DO NOT USE .38 S&W Spl. +P NON-JACKETED (EXPOSED LEAD BULLET) AMMUNITION!"
"...there is an ammunition instruction marked on the barrel that states ".38 Spl. +P Jacketed". This instruction is required because of the possibility of jamming the cylinder when shooting .38 S&W Spl. +P Non-Jacketed Lead Bullet Ammunition. This condition results from two factors caused by firing .38 S&W Spl. +P ammunition with non-jacketed lead bullets. The first factor is...a very light crimp by some ammunition manufacturers.... The second factor is the rapid recoil movement of these very light revolvers...."
The combination...can cause the non-jacketed lead bullets...to unseat themselves...and actually move forward in the cylinder's chambers...once firing is started. In some instances this can cause the tip of a bullet to protrude beyond the front face of the cylinder... This situation could cause the gun to jam... For this reason do not use non-jacketed (exposed lead bullet) .38 S&W Sp. +P ammunition in AirLite Ti revolvers. Typical jacketed bullet +P loadings use a much heavier and secure crimp and are not affected in this fashion.
.38 S&W Spl. standard pressure non-jacketed loads can be used without difficulty as they do not develop enough recoil to cause this Ammunition related condition."
My recollection remains that S&W's rep at the time recommended just staying with jacketed +P. I also recall hearing since then of bullets walking out under recoil in the guns, usually toward the last couple rounds in the cylinder.
As I mentioned earlier, relatively light lead loads should not be a problem.
My best info to date, hopefully a better clarification will be coming shortly.
Denis
On a related note, in looking through the vault for something else I actually found the box my AirLite Ti came in, which I'd forgotten I had, and which included a small folder dealing specifically with the AirLite Ti and not lumping it in with the usual generic one-size-fits-all manual now shipped with most S&W revolvers.
In that folder it says, in part:
"The Titanium Cylinder used in your AirLite Ti revolver weighs approximately 60% of what a similar Stainless Steel cylinder weighs...."
"AMMUNITION WARNING FOR .38 S&W Spl. AirLite Ti Revolvers ONLY"
"DO NOT USE .38 S&W Spl. +P NON-JACKETED (EXPOSED LEAD BULLET) AMMUNITION!"
"...there is an ammunition instruction marked on the barrel that states ".38 Spl. +P Jacketed". This instruction is required because of the possibility of jamming the cylinder when shooting .38 S&W Spl. +P Non-Jacketed Lead Bullet Ammunition. This condition results from two factors caused by firing .38 S&W Spl. +P ammunition with non-jacketed lead bullets. The first factor is...a very light crimp by some ammunition manufacturers.... The second factor is the rapid recoil movement of these very light revolvers...."
The combination...can cause the non-jacketed lead bullets...to unseat themselves...and actually move forward in the cylinder's chambers...once firing is started. In some instances this can cause the tip of a bullet to protrude beyond the front face of the cylinder... This situation could cause the gun to jam... For this reason do not use non-jacketed (exposed lead bullet) .38 S&W Sp. +P ammunition in AirLite Ti revolvers. Typical jacketed bullet +P loadings use a much heavier and secure crimp and are not affected in this fashion.
.38 S&W Spl. standard pressure non-jacketed loads can be used without difficulty as they do not develop enough recoil to cause this Ammunition related condition."
My recollection remains that S&W's rep at the time recommended just staying with jacketed +P. I also recall hearing since then of bullets walking out under recoil in the guns, usually toward the last couple rounds in the cylinder.
As I mentioned earlier, relatively light lead loads should not be a problem.
My best info to date, hopefully a better clarification will be coming shortly.
Denis
farscott
Member
I hope you get a more detailed answer than I did.
For what its worth, the same flier came as an insert in the M342PD manual.
Got through to a person in a better position to speak about the issue today.
After some discussion & clarification on both sides, it turns out that there were some ammunition-related issues with the early Scandium-framed guns when first introduced. Most seem to have been related to the transition to the .357-length J-Frames.
My contact did not recall the first centerfire Scandiums as being .38s & was surprised when I was describing it, the .38 Special +P Jacketed barrel stamping, and the +P warning leaflet that came with it.
The net result is that the ammunition sensitivity of the early Scandium frames has apparently been resolved in the past 12 or 13 years since I got mine, and he says the "+P only" verbiage on the website is an oversight that should not be there.
All of the J-Frames that are listed as being chambered for +P are OK with either +P or conventional pressured .38 Special ammunition. Ignore the "+P only" where the descriptions list it.
Denis
After some discussion & clarification on both sides, it turns out that there were some ammunition-related issues with the early Scandium-framed guns when first introduced. Most seem to have been related to the transition to the .357-length J-Frames.
My contact did not recall the first centerfire Scandiums as being .38s & was surprised when I was describing it, the .38 Special +P Jacketed barrel stamping, and the +P warning leaflet that came with it.
The net result is that the ammunition sensitivity of the early Scandium frames has apparently been resolved in the past 12 or 13 years since I got mine, and he says the "+P only" verbiage on the website is an oversight that should not be there.
All of the J-Frames that are listed as being chambered for +P are OK with either +P or conventional pressured .38 Special ammunition. Ignore the "+P only" where the descriptions list it.
Denis
farscott
Member
Denis,
Thanks for chasing this. The answer makes sense to me as it fits nicely with my experience with the pre-lock M342PD and the flier that came with it.
Thanks for chasing this. The answer makes sense to me as it fits nicely with my experience with the pre-lock M342PD and the flier that came with it.
- Status
