Safes, Storage, Humidity and Rust

[fish2xs]

Comrades,

I'm thinking about getting a safe and am concerned about how my storage
plans may effect my toys (rust). Here are some details:

- I live in northern MA.
- I am planning on putting the safe in the basement.
- The basement is finished, except for the small room where the
oil burner and water heater are. That is where the safe will go.
No option there.
- In extreme cases (spring snow melt + rain) this section of the
basement floods about 2 - 3 inches of water max. Outside of
this, it never floods. When it floods it is only for a day or 2.
- Since this room is where the oil burner is, it stays warm in the
winter and fairly cool in the other months.
- We have no climate control (humidifiers, dehumidifiers, AC) for
the house outside of heat.
- I am looking at a Sentry G4211 (see http://www.fsguns.com/safes.html )
any opinions on this model?
- I will probably put the safe on 4 inch high wooden blocks to keep it
elevated.

I'm probably being paranoid, but will these plans keep my toys from
getting rusty or otherwise aging prematurely? Any way to keep humidity
down in the safe that does not require electricity?

Thanks!

 

[threeseven]

You could try those little containers you buy with the basket of crystals in a little plastic tub. They work like the little silica gel packets in new luggage and the like. The crystals absorb the moisture and turn into liquid, when the crystals are nearly gone you replace the container.

That's about the only way I could think of that wouldn't use electricity.

 

[Coltdriver]

You can get dessicant at the hardware store.

Why the objection to electricity? With somthing as simple as a lightbulb in the safe on a timer you can keep the temperature one or two degrees above the basement and you will pretty much eliminate the moisture.

If the issue is the occasional water on the floor get a remote switch for the lightbulb.

Most safes have a hole in the top for the purpose of running an electrical cord into them.

 

[fish2xs]

>>Why the objection to electricity?

No huge objection - but if I can get by without it, I would prefer.

I don't know if I have a handy outlet in the room and I'd rather not
wire a new one if it can be avoided...

 

[swingcatt]

I actually asked the local pharmacist for some of their silica packs (or "do not eats" as I call them). They get a packet with every pill bottle and they just throw them away. Let me tell you, a big chain goes thru a whole bunch of them a day. After a few months of stopping about once a week, I had enough to fill up a five gallon bucket!

Needless to say, I don't worry about humididty (sic) and my guns anymore. Put a handfull in every case and keep on truckin. FYI, if you have pets or small young-uns around, these things will kill you dead flat!

SC

 

[VonFatman]

Hmmm....

Certainly some issues with your location...

First, what are you after? Security or climate control?

You have to bolt any safe down to the floor if you expect to keep it where you put it. The bottom of all safes are very flimsy and one of the main reasons to dead-bolt them down is to avoid a tip-over and entry thru the bottom.

If you want security, the 4" off the floor idea makes it tougher to tie down.

You are in the correct area, concrete is the place to put a safe. The basement is the place to put the safe. Against the wall is the place to put the safe (you should try to dead bolt to the wall too if it does not void any fire-proofing warranty).

You need to shim (not inches) the safe up so it does not rust. The best situation level with the base not over 1/2" off the floor.

I use allum. angle and set my safe on the apex. I have the angle all around the under-edge of the safe to keep someone with a hacksaw blade from getting at my bolts.

My non-fireproof safe is bolted floor and wall...the other, just floor, but with five large dead bolts.

If you can...run electrical! (Unless your guns are just clunk’rs of no value) You can take the money you were spending on “gun insurance coverage) and use it to run the copper! Geesh, a "Golden Rod" (or like type) is very important! It is a very low power usage unit that warms/dries the air inside your safe's interior. I also have a small de-humidifier in my safe area to dry the outside air....I too get seep into the concrete (not 2") and it keeps the entire area dry.

If you have to mount that bad boy up....use some big bolts and a number of them! You do not want them to be able to tip it over!!!

Ideally, you might think of a way to bolt that safe down low and snug, run electric in close enough to run an extension cord at minimum...use a dry-berm around the base of the safe, the stuff is available at safety/enviro spill suppliers and could be used as a back-up to keep the high water away in wet times....

Good luck.

I also suggest an interior light...ever try to find stuff in a refridge when the bulb is out? And a fridge is WHITE inside! Also, suggest an electronic key pad....extremely reliable and easy to use and change combination on w/o a locksmith.

VonFatman

By the way, I was broken into a couple years ago and a gentleman on a similer site made these recommendations and had I not followed them one week prior to the break-in (bolting down low and against the wall on one of my safes) I' d have lost one of the safes

 

[harpethriver]

I live in a log house (very porous) buried in the woods. Humidity is a major problem. I have a Ft. Knox safe, both burglary and fireproof, elevated 4" on a factory pallet. I ran an extension cord to a tiny, factory pre-drilled hole and installed a dry-rod. I bought multiple bags of dessicant, the kind you heat up in the oven to re-charge, and voila, dry, safe and secure storeage for my gun stuff. In over 5 yrs. there have been absolutely no problems, even when water has seeped through and closet floors have turned blue.

 

[Preacherman]

If your basement floor is concrete, you can build a plinth for your safe using regular bricks and cement. Build it up to at least one brick's height, possibly two if you're worried about flooding. Use a strong cement, and set bolts into the floor to hold the cement down as well by providing anchors. Then, drill bolt holes in the bricks to hold down your safe. This is probably the safest way to go.

I also strongly second the recommendations about using a Goldenrod - this is vitally important if any moisture is in the environment. Dessicant packs alone will NOT be sufficient.

 

[Chipperman]

I live in Northeast MA. When we first moved into our house, my wife tried to get me to put the gun safe into the basement. "NO WAY," I said. Our basement is similar to yours in the occasional water department. There is a lot of other metal stuff down there (tools, etc), and a lot of it has surface rust on it now.

I would try everything possible to put in somewhere other than the basement.

If that is not feasible, I would definitely agree with the others about a Goldenrod.

BTW, are you in Eastern or Western MA?

 

[AJ Dual]

You could try those little containers you buy with the basket of crystals in a little plastic tub. They work like the little silica gel packets in new luggage and the like. The crystals absorb the moisture and turn into liquid, when the crystals are nearly gone you replace the container.

I've used the "Hi-Dri" bucket with some success in a closet that stored firearms as well. I can only assume that it would work even better in the better sealed environment of a safe.

However, be warned that the crystals in those dessicant buckets are merely plain old Sodium Hydroxide, aka, Lye. It has the handy property of being incredibly hydroscopic.

If it spills or runs over, you've got a lye solution running around with your guns. Just something to watch out for.

Just FYI.

 

[PromptCritical]

I use this stuff called Bullfrog RustBlocker. Looks like yellow foam rubber in a cardboard packet. Don't know if it really works or not, but if I get no rust, I'm happy.

http://www.bull-frog.ca/

 

[JohnBT]

I have a safe in my unfinished, unheated, always damp, sometimes wet, dirty basement. I think there's still coal dust down there dating back to when the house was built in 1916. When it gets really damp the big roll-around dehumidifier will pull between 3 and 3.5 gallons out of the air overnight. And this is only a 22'x32' space.

Anyway, the safes I looked at, and the one I bought, don't have doors that seal - at least not until the heat from a fire causes the gasket to expand. Go ahead and take a dollar bill and lock your safe door on it - I predict that it'll slide around between the bolts and come right out easily with no tugging.

I tried a box of gun safe dessicant and a plastic tub of flower drying crystals and they needed to be recharged in less than a week. So much for that idea. Since they've been sitting under a workbench for the past year I think I'll take them to the next gun show and give them away. Or I could take up flower drying I guess.

Now I'm using 2 Goldenrods, an 18" and a 24", and haven't had the first problem - unless you count the hurricaine knocking the power out for 2 days. I suppose one GR would do, but for a few pennies a day more I sleep better.

It's another beautiful sunny day here, 58 degrees F and 78% humidity, and it's not even 8:30 a.m. yet. Time for another mug of coffee. If the wind ever quits blowing I'm going to the range.

John

 

[VonFatman]

I'd say the brick idea Preacherman had was a gem!

VonFatman

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

Hoo - Boy, I sit out a coupla weeks & look what happens!

Fish, please do a search on Residential Security Containers or RSC's, this is what your Sentry (Cannon, Browning, Ft. Knox, Liberty, etc.) is. I've posted several times, usually in 'Firearms Accessories' on this subject.

Colt Driver; The hole in the top of the cabinet is not specifically for electrical access. It's there because the container hangs from a T running through that hole as it goes down the assembly line.

VonFatman; The bottoms of safes are not flimsy or built any different from the other 4 sides. Your mis-perception lies in regarding an RSC as a safe.

Goldenrods, although they are an excellent idea, do not dry the air. They are a heating device only. Their function is to keep the interior of the safe above dew-point & prevent the collection of moisture drops on the contents. In other words they are to keep the moisure suspended as vapor in the atmosphere of the container & prevent it from collecting as dew upon anything in the interior.

If you do run an electrical cord to the interior of the container, put some duct tape around the hole & then pour a little plaster of Paris in the hole around the cord. This will go a long way towards preserving what minimal fire protection most RSC's have.

As I've stated before & undoubtedly will again; I do this for a living. I'm a locksmith & specialize in the sales & service of true safes, not tin cans. For those who may be interested, it's possible to get an actual U.L. rated safe for a reasonable amount of money. Some safes cost less than the high-end Browning or Liberty RSC's. Which is not to say that a safe isn't expensive when compared to the under $500.00 RSC's out there.

Somethings to keep in mind. A costly high-end RSC gives very little more protection than a sub $500.00 container. And anything is better than nothing.

I'm more than willing to answer questions, but I won't argue with the uninformed.

900F