School Zones

[ArtP]

I live in CA and 150 yards from a public school. I have two locking containers - I can carry two long guns and two hand guns. There are times I head out with a third long gun that is not locked in anything. Am I breaking the law?

I don't plan to buy another locking container, I'd just like to specifically know the law if I were to get pulled over.

 

[Librarian]

Art, that's a FAQ over at CalGuns.net.

Short answer: CA-wise, no - CA's GFSZ does not address long guns. Federally, maybe - if you carry that third long gun outside your trunk.

See the Calguns Foundation Wiki article.

 

[mljdeckard]

What's a school zone?

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

What's a school zone?

Conveniently, it's defined in the link provided by Librarian.

 

[Harley Rider 55]

You can have an M-60 in the rifle rack while in an active school zone, but you cannot use a phone.

 

[Quiet]

What's a school zone?

Since, Federal laws apply to all states...
Here are the Federal definition of what a school zone is [18 USC 921(a)(25)] and the Federal Gun Free School Zone Act [18 USC 922(q)].


18 USC 921
(a) As used in this chapter—
(25) The term “school zone” means—
(A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or
(B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.
(26) The term “school” means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law.

18 USC 922
(q)
(1) The Congress finds and declares that—
(A) crime, particularly crime involving drugs and guns, is a pervasive, nationwide problem;
(B) crime at the local level is exacerbated by the interstate movement of drugs, guns, and criminal gangs;
(C) firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate commerce and have been found in increasing numbers in and around schools, as documented in numerous hearings in both the Committee on the Judiciary [3] the House of Representatives and the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate; (D) in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which they are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce;
(E) while criminals freely move from State to State, ordinary citizens and foreign visitors may fear to travel to or through certain parts of the country due to concern about violent crime and gun violence, and parents may decline to send their children to school for the same reason;
(F) the occurrence of violent crime in school zones has resulted in a decline in the quality of education in our country;
(G) this decline in the quality of education has an adverse impact on interstate commerce and the foreign commerce of the United States;
(H) States, localities, and school systems find it almost impossible to handle gun-related crime by themselves—even States, localities, and school systems that have made strong efforts to prevent, detect, and punish gun-related crime find their efforts unavailing due in part to the failure or inability of other States or localities to take strong measures; and
(I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation’s schools by enactment of this subsection.
(2)
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is—
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.
(3)
(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the discharge of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) as part of a program approved by a school in the school zone, by an individual who is participating in the program;
(iii) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in a school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; or
(iv) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity.
(4) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as preempting or preventing a State or local government from enacting a statute establishing gun free school zones as provided in this subsection.

 

[rainbowbob]

What's a school zone?

Good question.

Conveniently, it's defined in the link provided by Librarian.

Good answer.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Gun_Free_School_Zones

Good link.


Is it just me, or is this excerpt somewhat chilling?

(H) States, localities, and school systems find it almost
impossible to handle gun-related crime by themselves — even
States, localities, and school systems that have made strong
efforts to prevent, detect, and punish gun-related crime find
their efforts unavailing due in part to the failure or
inability of other States or localities to take strong
measures; and
(I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce
clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact
measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation’s
schools by enactment of this subsection.

 

[ArtP]

Oh crap... You're fooking kidding me? There is no straight answer?

I had a feeling it was 1000 feet, is it a misdemeanor or felony, more importantly, is it a gun losing crime? - this one I'm dead serious about --

I suppose I'm illegal? To what degree - generalizing accepted.

As a *minimum*, I'd love to throw icecream in the face of those politicians who confuse my law abiding intentions with a crime. Are any of you "riskay" enough to spell out the law in "man" terms? (I hate to boil it down like that, but I'm otherwise not creative enough)

I gather... I'm commiting a crime just by loading long guns into my truck on my own friggin' driveway, no? Alrighty, what's the penalty?

Is it federal or state law I might be breaking?

 

[Quiet]

I gather... I'm commiting a crime just by loading long guns into my truck on my own friggin' driveway, no? Alrighty, what's the penalty?

Is it federal or state law I might be breaking?

Neither sets of laws.

No crime for placing long guns in the trunk of your vehicle parked on your property.

There are private property exemptions to both Federal [18 USC 922(q)(2)B)(i)] and CA state [PC 626.9(c)(1)] GFSZ laws.


18 USC 922
(q)(2)
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

CA Penal Code 626.9
(a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written permission of the school district superintendent, his or her designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as specified in subdivision(f).
(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm under any of the following circumstances:
(1) Within a place of residence or place of business or on private property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the firearm is otherwise lawful.

 

[mljdeckard]

So, when I carry regularly at my kids' school, am in in violation of federal law even if it's not against state law?

 

[Librarian]

Fedlaw says it's an exception

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

So, when I carry regularly at my kids' school, am in in violation of federal law even if it's not against state law?

From that, the answer to your question becomes one about your state law. If I read that correctly, it seems to say that with CHL (or, now that I think of it, something like Illinois's FOID) that includes a background check, you're golden. If it's 'Vermont Carry', you're in violation.

 

[mljdeckard]

I had had a discussion before with someone who was sure that under the interstate commerce abuse, you couldn't carry a gun into a school in any state even with a permit. I didn't worry about it because I had already verified with my state authorities that under their scope and authority it was legal. But it was in the back of my head that there might be a California Pot Law-style conflict between state and federal law. This is good to know.

 

[wishin]

In the for what it's worth department, Georgia's new gun law eliminated the 1000 foot rule, requiring all schools to define the school zone.

 

[Owen Sparks]

I fail to understand how school rules and restrictions can extend even one inch beyond school property lines, especially on to private property.

 

[Shadow 7D]

They don't, and the above law was for the most part ruled grossly unconstitutional by the supreme court, but individual states which DO have the power to institute gun free zones, or prohibited places do, in Alaska you are banned from carry unless specifically allowed by the administrate of the school, and the local district has claimed that OK is from the superintendent, she is also the last president of the local NEA branch, and they wonder why the teachers "managed to get another raise...

 

[Top_Gunn]

the above law was for the most part ruled grossly unconstitutional by the supreme court

Not exactly. The first version of the law was ruled unconstitutional (not "grossly unconstitutional," which is not a recognized legal concept). Congress then passed a new version, based on findings which supposedly remedy the constitutional defect of the earlier version. The Supreme Court has yet to rule on the current version. It will likely be many years before it does.

 

[Zoogster]

Oh crap... You're fooking kidding me? There is no straight answer?

I had a feeling it was 1000 feet, --

First let us start with the California version:

This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful
transportation of any other firearm, other than a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, in
accordance with state law.

This has a specific meaning in statute and case law in California, and applies to handguns.
So long guns are not even impacted. They are only not allowed on school property itself.

is it a misdemeanor or felony, more importantly, is it a gun losing crime? - this one I'm dead serious about

In California felonies and misdemeanors can remove your rights. Felonies for life, and misdemeanors range from 10 years to life.
There is a long list of specific misdemeanors, but in addition to that list most misdemeanors involving firearms also result in denial of rights for 10+ years.

The crime can be charged as both a misdemeanor and a felony under different specified conditions.
Even if given as a misdemeanor you would likely lose your gun rights for at least 10 years, and certainly while on probation for a firearm violation (which can last years even for an offense punishable by a maximum of days in jail.)




As for the federal version:

It is generally not enforced since the original version was struck down by the Supreme Court.
This has resulted in a tradition of not enforcing the federal version.
It was passed a second time virtually word for word, with a new addition that said the firearm had to be proven to have been involved in interstate commerce.
The Gonzales v Raich decision has however greatly expanded what is considered to be subject to the commerce clause and trigger federal jurisdiction.
In fact under Gonzales v Raich is it quite likely that even the first version would have not been struck down under the same logic. As any gun, homemade or otherwise is now considered to impact interstate commerce, and thus be within the commerce clause.
So while many people previously believed the second and current version was likely to be considered as Unconstitutional as the first, and struck down if challenged, there is a new standard.
At the time there was a different standard of reviewing the commerce clause than now, based on an earlier decision.