Scout Scope or Red Dot?

[amprecon]

I am looking at enhancing the capabilities of my rifles and have already set up the M1A with the ARMS mount and have a 6X scope ready to put on it when it gets back.
But I also want to get the Ultimak rail/tube for the SLR-95 and the Scout Mount for the Garand, my question is which type of optic would be more beneficial to swap between the 3 rifles, a forward mounted magnified scout scope or a non-magnified red dot. For the red dot I've already decided on the Aimpoint CompC3 and for the scout scope I'm looking at the Leupold 4X28 or the Burris 2.75X20 scout scopes.
I'm thinking that the red dot would add more versatility to my abilities, as the M1A would have a standard scope setup, the red dot would fill the quick acquisition, short-to-medium range role.
I took my Garand deer hunting and during the late afternoon I had a doe out about 75 yards through the trees and the sun was back and to the side of me and cast a shadow across the front sight from the sight ears. Every time I figured out where the shadow line was and the top of the sight was the doe would move and I'd have to figure it out all over again until she walked out of sight.
I knew that if I had either a red dot or other optic attached she'd of been down a few seconds after I first saw her.
So what's your opinions or preferences, I'm looking for the one that would add more versatility to my collection and be more practical for all-around use.

 

[pgeleven]

just keep in mind every time youre swapping sights around, you have to re-zero (im sure youre already aware). personally, i would go for a scout scope, or something with magnification since these weapons are capable of long distance damage, whereas a red dot wont do you much good once you start getting past the 300-or-so yard line. i mounted an Aimpoint CompM4 on my SOCOM II and it gets decent groups, but not as neat as i know it would be capable of had i opted for a magnified scope.

 

[Anyname]

The biggest issue with scout scopes is that the field of view is lousy. Anything more than 2.5X becomes very problematic for the fast shooting that scout scopes are supposed to be great for.

 

[amprecon]

So how do you think the 9000SC 2X 2moa work for these 3 rifles?

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Not sure on that specific scope.

But another drawback to the red dot idea:

Batteries. They go dead, you're done.

 

[AK103K]

I've had both on my M1A(SOCOM), and preferred the Aimpoint over my Scout scopes. Its just a lot more versatile sight. I also have a couple of AK's set up that way.

A couple of downsides to the scout scopes is very similar to what you experienced with your iron sights. Light coming in low over your shoulder can wreak havoc, just like it does with peep sights. You also dont get the light gathering advantage from the scope like you do with lower powered, traditional mounted scopes. Its to far forward.

The scopes are still very usable though, for most other uses, I just find the dot works best in most all light and conditions.

I'm not a fan of the rear mounted scopes on the M1A's. It basically reduces the guns usefulness, and what its trying to accomplish, can be done better with other things. The scope is also mounted way to high, and requires a cheek piece to be shootable. If I get another M1A, it will have an Ultimak rail on it too. But hey, thats me.

I have both the Leupold 2.5X Scout, and the Burris 2.75X Scout, and much prefer the Leupold over the Burris. You wouldnt think 1/4X would make a difference, but for me, the heavier power of the Burris is annoying. The Leupold also seems a bit clearer and brighter.

Your on the right track with the Aimpoints. Batteries are a non issue and the sights hold up well to actual use abuse.

On your AK, if you get the Ultimak and use a low Aimpoint ring, you can see through the tube and cowitness your sights. If you use any of the AR lever mounts, it will be too high. Still very usable, just to high to see through the tube. The lever mount will let you move the sight from gun to gun, but you will need to re-zero each time it goes on a different gun. Same with the scope.

If you go with lever rings/mount for the scope and a lever mount for the dot, you can swap the scope and dot at will as long as you dont change guns. This is how I had my SOCOM set up, and I have an AR set up the same way.

 

[amprecon]

Thanks AK103K,
The plan I have now is to mainly leave the 6X on the M1A and leave the other optic on the AK most of the time. My biggest problem is deciding what type of sight I should get that would be the most versatile and useful for all three.
I think the 9000SC on the Garand would definitely enhance it's usefulness, but I'm concerned about how much weight and bulk it might add to the front of the AK.

 

[dmazur]

You might consider an Eotech for the Garand.

I got one with the 1MOA dot and find it works just fine out to 200 yds. At first I thought it would only work for close-range shooting, but the small dot is the trick for 200 yds.

I found that the true holographic display of the Eotech means head position is not critical, compared to the head position required for using the iron sights.

Also, if the Eotech is mounted a couple inches forward of the action, there are two advantages:

1) There's room to grab the stock at the balance point.
2) The sight stays cleaner as it's a little further away from the action.

The comments about re-zeroing have merit. It is a pain to rezero sights when you swap them around. I would get the sight that works best for the application even if it means duplicating...

 

[amprecon]

Does the 2X magnification contribute or take away from it's usefulness?

 

[pgeleven]

Does the 2X magnification contribute or take away from it's usefulness?

i have an aimpoint on a pistol with 2x magnification (integrated) and its extremely useful, makes the gun more accurate than i imagined it would be in my hands.

for the seperate magnified eyepiece, it helps, since you are not using parallax on a red dot. the only reason we all dont have them is the price tag. could buy a whole nother big $ scope with that instead

 

[amprecon]

I'm leaning towards the 2X magnification red dot, but it looks like aimpoint only offers 2moa dots as their smallest. I believe the 1moa dot would be more useful for me since I plan to mount it on rifles for use at distance.
They also recommend the 9000 series for semi-auto rifles, but it requires a two ring mount set-up and it is longer/bulkier than their Comp series.
They don't list their CompC3 for primary use on semi-auto's but I've found one with 2X mag and 1moa dot and it only requires a single ring for mounting. Would this one be a good choice?
It looks like Aimpoint has discontinued their 1moa sights.

 

[rbernie]

I have the Leupold and Burris scout scopes, as well as several of the 2x Aimpoint 9000s with 2MOA dot.

I like the Aimpoints just fine, and the battery life is (by spec) exceptionally long. The 2MOA dot is about the right size for a 2x optic; I have never wished for less. The optics are probably not as sophisticated as the Leupold or Burris scopes, but I get no edge distortion or obvious errors. If anything, I would expect chromatic abberations moreso than anything else (and the Burris is certainly not free of that either).

I think that the Aimpoint has two big selling features; it's FOV is less cluttered, and the red dot is always visible. On the con side, it's body is larger and harder to 'look around' it as a scout scope than is the Burris or Leupold, it probably a wee bit heavier, and it's certainly more expensive.

The ocular on the Burris is adjustable, but the Leupold and Aimpoint are not. If the dot/reticle isn't in focus for your eyes - too bad for you.

In the end, I think that the Aimpoint is more versatile. But then again, I have four CompM family Aimpoints so I'm pretty invested in their kit.

 

[amprecon]

Well, I got to check out a couple of red dots at the local gun store afte work today and I would recommend anyone interested in these sights to do the same. You can get a general idea of what you want on the net, but it just does not compare to what you see up close and personal.
I was thinking about getting the CompC3 2X 1moa, the clerk was friendly enough to entertain me and they weren't too busy. I then realized magnification actually detracts from what these things were built to do, it was even more apparent after I checked out the CompC3 1X 2moa. The magnified lense makes using the sight more difficult, especially for quick acquisition, you had to work to point it at what you wanted to see and the dot was however useable.
The 1X 2moa dot was fine and the sight was fantastic, very small and brilliant and you don't work to use it, you just look at your target and the dot magically appears on it with no effort at all.
The gentlemen even let me check out the eotech sight which I thought was a well built piece, the "donut-of-death" was certainly there and the lense was non-existant in the fov. It was amazing to watch that thing float around in there. But to me it seemed the circle would distract me from using the center dot. All-in-all I preferred the CompC3 for it's single dot and more compactness and better battery performance. I believe it'll be a definite advantage mounted to any of my rifles for any medium range uses. They were asking $431 for it, and I'm going to shop around, but I think the Aimpoint is the way to go.
The only concern I have is that Aimpoint doesn't recommend this particular sight for semi-automatics primarily I hope this won't be an issue.

 

[ArmedBear]

Since you use a cheek weld when properly shooting a rifle rifle like an M1A, I'd get a scout scope.

IMO a scout scope points like a field shotgun, but provides a precise point of aim for rifle shooting. I like them a lot.

With an entry carbine or something, I'd get a red dot. Maybe on a pistol, I would also, though the only handgun optic I currently own and use is a scope, not a dot sight. Depends on the pistol, and what it's for.

However, to rapidly acquire and shoot a target with the M1A, your head and body should move as a unit with the rifle, as it would when shooting clays or birds with a shotgun. This makes the dot less useful IMO, and the scope very easy to use.

 

[AK103K]

amprecon,

You want to be looking at the Comp "M" series, not the "C". They are the military grade sights and will work on anything. I've had mine on bolt actions, semis, and full auto guns, without any problems.

However, to rapidly acquire and shoot a target with the M1A, your head and body should move as a unit with the rifle, as it would when shooting clays or birds with a shotgun. This makes the dot less useful IMO, and the scope very easy to use.

I've used both on the M1A, using Springfields forward rail, and the lowest mounts or rings I could find. You do still get somewhat of a cheek weld, but not like you would with using the iron sights. Its still pretty natural to shoulder and shoot with though. The dot sight was always easier to use as you describe, and snap shooting with it is definitely quicker and easier than with the scope. The only advantage the scope offered, was more precision at longer range, as it gives you a finer aiming point and the scope has a little power to it.

If you were to use the Ultimak rail in place of the Springfield rail, I think you'll get the optic a little lower and it would be even more user friendly. It also offers more mounting options and will accept mil spec mounts and rings, as Sprinfields rail isnt mil spec (unless they changed it, mine wasnt) .

 

[amprecon]

I think I've got it figured, I ordered the Aimpoint CompC3 2X 1moa which I'll put on the Garand then later get the CompC3 2moa for the AK and keep the 6X Nikon on the M1A. I think this setup will cover most bases and even duplicate a couple.
As I understand it the only difference between the CompM(L)3 and CompC3 is how deep in the water you can take it. I don't figure I'll be taking any of my rifles scuba diving any time soon.

 

[KBintheSLC]

Burris 2.75X20 scout scopes

I finally ended up putting one of those on the railed fore end of my Yugo AK after trying several different optics options. I have to say that it takes the weapon to a whole new level. It is a bit heavier than a compact red dot, but the Burris scout scopes are tough as nails. Mine has held zero for about 800 rounds now, and shows no sign of moving. The nice thing about it is that I can fire quickly at close range with both eyes open, and I can fire slowly and accurately out to 400 yards off the bench (AK is not the best at 400, but it works if I follow my drop calculations). It is the best of both worlds, and I don't have to worry about batteries running out, or moisture screwing up electronic components. I highly recommend the Burris scout scope for creating an extremely versatile and universal use rifle.