Seating and crimping in separate steps

[WayneConrad]

In this here thread, Delmar, Mike Kerr and BluesBear recommend seating and crimping in separate steps. Mr. Kerr says that it makes it easier to diagnose problems. Delmar says he'd not seat and crimp in the same step for pure lead bullets.

That caught my attention, because I've got a few thousand lead bullets on order for 9mm and 38sp. Being a newbie, that gave me some questions for you experts.

For 9mm, I've got the RCBS 3-die taper crimp set. For 38spcl, I've got the RCBS 3-die roll crimp set. Does the advice to seat and crimp separately apply to both taper and roll crimping? And when I finally get a rifle, will that advice apply to bottle-necked cases as well?

What about lead bullets makes it more important to seat and crimp separately?

I'll be using a single-stage press. Do I need different dies to seat and crimp separately? Or do I use my seat/crimp die for both steps, seating by keeping the body of the seat/crimp die backed out and using only the seating stem, and crimping by using the body of the seat/crimp die and keeping the seating stem backed out?

Thanks for your answers!

 

[JoeHatley]

Wayne,

I'm not really sure it's important to seat and crimp in seperate steps. I've been reloading .38 spec/.357 mag/.45 acp/.45 colt, for almost 25 years. I've always done both operations in the same die. Never had any problems.

With cast lead bullets, you want to make sure the inside case mouth is chamfered and belled, so the bullet will be seated without lead shaving.

Good Luck...

Joe

 

[donkee]

I do mine in separate steps. The big reason is that I get some bullets that don't go in far enough (sometimes too far). Not a lot of them, but maybe 10 out of 100. If I crimped at the same time, I believe I would be shaving lead or jacket material off if I have to run them through again to seat deeper (or if they're too deep, I have to beat the crap outta them with the kinetic puller to get them out, then shave off bullet material seating them deeper). So I seat, measure, then crimp. One little cheat I came up with (others may/probably have figured this out already) I replaced the o-ring lock rings on my LEE dies with Hornadys, I screw the die in to my crimp depth, tighten the lock screw and leave it that way for future loadings. Then I grabbed a washer approx 1/8' thick, and when I seat the bullets, I put the washer between the die and press, seat the bullets and verify OAL, back out the seater, then unscrew the die, remove the washer, and screw the die back in and run em through the crimp process. The crimping takes no time at all for 100 rounds, and I feel more confident in my ammo. Psycho, I know, but it works for me........

 

[HSMITH]

I prefer to seat and crimp in seperate dies, but it is not necessary. I think the ammunition done with seperate steps is a little more consistent but ONLY if everything that leads up to loading is done as well like trimming cases to length and so on. If loading mixed headstamps that haven't been trimmed it is a waste of time to crimp and seat seperately in a single stage. In a progressive it doesn't take any more time but you won't see any advantage.

Donkee, if you are getting seating depth variations of more than a thousandth or two something is wrong with your press or dies.....

 

[Jim Watson]

I roll crimp revolver ammo in the seating die. The bullets have crimp grooves and when adjusted right, the seating die will crimp into the groove as the bullet is seated the last fraction of an inch.

I taper crimp autopistol ammo separately. I do not see how even a taper crimp surface in a seating die can close down the case mouth against a smooth-sided auto bullet without scraping up lead or copper in the last part of the seating movement. But I know RCBS and Lee will sell you dies that claim to do just that. Maybe I ought to invest in a set. Naw, I load on progressives with a crimp station anyhow.

 

[donkee]

I really only get the variances with cast lead. jacketed all go well. I used to have a lot of them coming out in the area of .010 off. Found that the table the press was mounted to had just a bit of flex. I stiffened it up and got much better results. Part of the problem may be that there still is a bit of flex. My bench is a black and decker workmate. I'm getting with a buddy of mine next weekend and we're going to build a good stout bench for me. It's tough where I'm at now. If I fire up a saw here, the apartment nazis will come to get me!

 

[Tony Mig]

I use all Lee dies and presses for my reloading, and when I started with a single stage, I did the seating & crimping in one step with the seating die. When set up right, it'll do a fine job.
Now I have a Loadmaster 5 station progressive, so I bought the crimping dies, and do it in seperrate steps. The crimp really doesn't seem to be any better, but if for some reason the bullet doesn't seat right, I can catch it before it gets crimped in, and fix it without much hassle.

 

[Rabid Rabbit]

donkee

I have the same workmate setup. I glued and screwed 3 inches of plywood and fastened it to the work top with the largest bolts that would fit (1 inch I think) through the large holes. It doesn't flex any more.

 

[The Bushmaster]

With the exception of .30-30 and .38 special (Lee factory Crimp Die) I seat the bullet and crimp in one stage and die (Lee). When doing this, and I bet when doing it seperately, make sure that you actually feel the crimp set when you pull the handle down. You should feel a small resistence and sudden release. These are very slight and must be practiced until you can really feel it. Lee seating die does a fine job when adjusted correctly.

 

[LHB1]

Hi Wayne,
I can see and agree to the theoretical benefit of seating and crimping in separate dies but in practice, I don't have any problems with my RCBS seater/taper crimp dies in .45 ACP and I shoot ONLY cast lead bullets. Have been reloading for 40 years using cast lead bullets in .357, .44, and .45 ACP. Have never used separate seater and crimp dies but have no argument with those who do use them. If you have an extra station on your progressive press and want to use separate dies, go for it. If you don't, then try a single seater/crimper die. You may find, as I have and some others have, that many, many rounds of ammo have been successfully reloaded with single seater/crimp dies (both roll crimp and taper crimp).

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

 

[TooTaxed]

A lot of .45 Colt cases are rather thin, and I used to buckle some cases when seating and crimping in one step, especially when the cases had a cannelure. Now I always seat and crimp .45 Colt in separate steps. After loose bullet problems with 9-mm Luger, I've also become a believer in the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Dies, so now I seat and crimp about everything in separate steps.