Selecting a target rifle .223

[fish2xs]

Sorry for the FAQ, but...

I'm looking for a (first) rifle to take to the target range. I won't hunt with it, as shotgun & bow are all that is allowed in my close vicinity.

I'd like something accurate, but don't want to drop huge coin on this (huge coin >= $700 for rifle only).

Without getting into analysis paralysis, I would appreciate the collective wisdom of this board.

FYI, I'm currently looking at a Savage model 10FP-LE2A, and a Remington 700 police (in .223) my questions are:

1. Are there other rifles I should be looking at? (any web site pointers would help)

2. What are the differences between a fluted shorter barrel & a longer non-fluted? (I'm not that worried about heat dissipation as I expect to be a 'casual shooter' at the range.

3. The Savage has a "choate stock" option - what is that?

4. Any other advice? Should I bother with the heavy, floating barrels?

Thanks!
Phil

 

[jim]

take a look at the CZ line of rifles www.czusa.com
i have just a basic CZ 527 in .223 mauser action, wood stock, 5rd mag, iron sights and what i really like is the set trigger. less than $525otd. they make a synthetic heavy bl one as well. great bang for the buck. the savage is a nice choice as well.

 

[Art Eatman]

Just for comparison purposes, and not as any suggestion: I picked up a nearly-new Ruger 77 Mk II in .223. I get three-shot, 1/2 MOA accuracy from the benchrest. My opinion is that if I take my time and don't let the barrel really get hot, it will stay near this level of accuracy for more shots. So, the type of rifle will depend on maybeso other factors: One's desire for even better accuracy, or looks, or...

Fluted barrels: The idea is to promote heat dissipation, and to provide the stiffness of a thick barrel without the weight penalty.

In general, a shorter barrel will be stiffer than a longer one. Maximizing stiffness in both barrel and action is believed to provide greater consistency of the shots as to group size.
Further, since a barrel vibrates as does a spring, uniformity of vibrations is important. This is where bedding enters the picture. To buy a rifle with proper bedding means a higher initial cost. There are numerous discussions about the why and how of doing this yourself.

Art

 

[Steve Smith]

1. Are there other rifles I should be looking at? (any web site pointers would help)

All the guns mentioned so far are good rifles.

2. What are the differences between a fluted shorter barrel & a longer non-fluted? (I'm not that worried about heat dissipation as I expect to be a 'casual shooter' at the range.

Short barrels *may* have a tendency to be more accurate because they are stiffer, but you lose sight radius (negated if using a scope). The shorter barrel will hamper speed, which will give you more wind drift and less punch if taking on varmints at distance. Fluting is a way of keeping a barrel light and stiff at the same time. It also has some cooling effects. There are some that feel that the fluting that is common to factory rifles is done at the wrong time with respect to the heat treating. I say forget the fluting for a bench gun unless the fluting is done by a master barrel maker.

3. The Savage has a "choate stock" option - what is that?

Choate is a company that makes rifle stocks. http://www.choatemachinetool.com/ Unfortunately, the Savage site doens't show a difference betwene the Choate and the McMillan stocks when you click the product numbers...hmm.

4. Any other advice? Should I bother with the heavy, floating barrels?

Yes.

 

[Sactown]

Have you looked at the Savage 12BVSS? It has a real comfortable laminated stock.

I get excellent groups out of mine. It's not something I'd want to carry in the field but is excellent off the bench or bipod. They're pretty inexpensive with darn good accuracy. Mine came fluted. Good luck.

 

[jem375]

Another one to look at is the Winchester Model 70 Stealth.....

 

[Swamp Yankee]

Another option in a Remington would be a 700 VS in .223 Rem. I picked one up last fall new for $600. I believe it's the same barrel and action as the 700P but mated to a different stock. Extra money saved could be invested in the glass and quality mounts.
As an aside, if you haven't tried on a 700P yet I strongly suggest you do so prior to purchase. The 700P stock takes a little getting used to. It's not bad just larger in the grip than a lot of shooters are used to.
Other rifles to consider would be the Wichester Stealth and Savage 10FP as previosly mentioned. The Winchester Coyote is another option though not built as heavily as the others.
Tikka makes some very nice, reasonably priced tack drivers. Finding one of their Whitetail Continental Varmint models may prove to be tough.
Good Luck and let us know how you make out.
Take Care

 

[Sir Galahad]

I just got the CZ 527 and am thrilled with it! With iron sights, it's dead on. This rifle IS accurate! I can imagine a scope will be even better! You might need to take a little sandpaper to the feed lips of the magazine, but after that, it's smooth and nice. You can get extra mags for it too, and that's a handy option. The wood used is absolutely beautiful and that Bavarian style stock just fits like a glove. The scope rings are like the Ruger M77 which is a plus in my book. (The rifle has an integral scope mounting base like the Ruger M77.) Let me tell you, that adjustable set trigger is GREEEEAAATTT!!!! It's a helluva PLUS! It really makes a difference on shots. It's an outstanding rifle. A rifle like the CZ could easily costs more. Buy one before they figure that out!

 

[cheygriz]

Look at a heavy barrel, 24 inch target AR-15. They've been winning a lot of championships lately.

There's nothing wrong with an old timey bolt gun, but with the AR-15, you can have a super accurate target rifle in the morning, and then switch the upper receives and have a nice 16 inch "Homeland defense Rifle" in the afternoon!

The next day, you can install another upper with a 6MM-.223 barrel and hunt with it.

 

[Britt]

I've never shot one, but heard the Savage varmint series being lauded as the most consistently accurate out-of-the-box factory rifle. My own suggestion (mostly because I love mine) is a Winchester Stealth. It's definitely a big cumbersome beast but it's shot everything I've tried to feed it and has broken the .5 in. mark several times @ 100 yds with 5 shot groups. Beyond that, the Stealth also comes from the factory with a pillar bedding block. I don't truly know how much it helps having nothing similar to compare it to, but it definitely is a great shooter as it stands. Good luck, BD

 

[gk1]

The 700 VS and 700 PSS are NOT the same barrel; the PSS has a faster twist rate, allowing the use of bullets heavier than 55 grains with accuracy.

If you plan on using the heavier bullets (62, 69, etc.), you should stick with the faster 1:7, 1:8, or 1:9 twist rates. 1:12 and 1:14, as found in some .223's, are intended for 55 or 52 grain bullets (respectively) maximum. While there's nothing wrong with these lighter bullets, the faster twists are able to make efficient use of the light bullets better than the slower twists can utilize the heavier bullets.

George

 

[BHP9]

ONe thing that was not mentioned is put the very best scope you can afford on your rifle. Its far better to buy an economy rifle and have a scope that costs twice what the rifle costs rather than the other way around.

Also someday when you get the money replace the factory trigger with a good custom match grade trigger that can be adjusted down to ounces not pounds. This alone will give you much more consistantly small groups that trying to fight a trigger pull of say a very heavy 1 or 2 lbs. I recommend the Jewel trigger. There are none better.

 

[fish2xs]

Is there a website where I can find out more about the winchester stealth? I went to winchester.com and they state that they do not manufacture rifles anymore.

I am leaning towards the heavier/larger stocks as I won't be making long hikes through the woods with it.

Thanks for all the pointers. Esp. the twist rates - I didn't even think about that. I've got some homework to do.

-Phil

 

[JStordahl]

Phil:

Go to www.winchester-guns.com and at the bottom of the page you will see product information.....click on that and look at what you want.

I have a Stealth in .223 and it shoots .5 easily in five shot groups with Sierra 69 gr. Matchkings and Varget. The Stealths have 26" barrels which isn't really necessary for the .223 and use a 1/9 twist. Nice rifles. Put a decent Leupold on it with a cross slot type base such as Weaver style, and every gopher within 300 yards will be in danger. Good luck.

 

[Jim Watson]

fish,

Uh, one more thing.
Do you handload?
If not, are you willing to pay for factory match or varmint ammo?

You will not get the kind of accuracy being discussed here with the usual run of econo-ball or Slobbovian surplus. At least I never have. If anybody has recommendations of .5 MOA cheap FMJ they will be appreciated.

If the answer to both questions above is "no" consider a nice .22 lr or maybe a .17 Hornady Rimfire.

 

[Nero Steptoe]

I believe you'll find the Remmy trigger superior to the Winchester trigger; also, more aftermarket do-dads are available for the Remmy's. I shoot a VS in .223 and have shot a few five-shot groups smaller than 1/4" at 100 yds. The quality of the "P" stock isn't better than the VS stock, it just has a different width, both in the fore section and the grip. The VS and "p" stocks cost the same.

IF you get the Savage, either get their new trigger or prepare to get an aftermarket. Some have posted that they've adjusted plain Savage triggers to 1# or so, but I'd think that's the exception, rather than the rule.