Shooting an animal in a tree?

[H&Hhunter]

H&H ,no need to get your panties in a bunch... /QUOTE]

Is that what that odd constricted feeling in the seat of my pants is?!?!

I must admit that leopard hunting from a blind is not really my cup of tea either. I'd very much like to hunt a leopard with the San bushmen in Botswana and watch these magical men track a cat through the Kalahari. I think that would be a tremendous experience.

Not to mention that often these leopard hunts end in a bout of hostility as the cat will get tired of being pushed. It seems that leopards don’t have much of a sense of humor.

I am far to physical of a hunter and have very little patience to hunt from a blind. IT DRIVES ME INSANE to sit around all day.

With that being said I have no problem with our hunters who do wish to bag a leopard over a bait and the blind is by far the most popular method.

I guess that what bothers me is that there is really no difference between this and the thousands upon thousands of deer that are harvested from blinds every year except the species involved. But I've already been there several times so I'll just let it rest.

Grabbing panties and tugging....

12-34,
You have a merry Christmas as well.

I hope we can chat before then.

Greg

 

[Lupinus]

I guess that what bothers me is that there is really no difference between this and the thousands upon thousands of deer that are harvested from blinds every year except the species involved.

other then a chit load spent for airline tickets and guides lol

 

[H&Hhunter]

Lupinus,

Have you seen what some of these South Texas game farms are charging for a "trophy" whitetail?

It qualifies as a double "a lot" as far as I can tell.

 

[JShirley]

I would actually pay money (if I had any) to see anyone choose to pour blood over themselves and sit in a tree with a 6mm (AI or no) waiting for ole' Bre'r Cat to come up and say howdy.

I reckon that would be hunting. And sporting. And exciting, though much more excitement than I think I know how to handle. So much more interactive. I'd love to see it- on film. Don't know that I'd actually want to be present, but the footage would be incredible.

 

[Ankeny]

It's kind of a personal thing for me also.

There are a lot of things that are legal in other states that are illegal here and are considered unethical. Hunting over a feeder, and party hunting are good examples. I have no use for in-line muzzle loaders and crossbows, but thousands of folks choose to use those tools. Still, I support those hunters who march to a different drummer because I realize different folks, in different circumstances, do things differently.

 

[Robinhood]

Anti hunter?

Mr. Beetle,

I noticed you said you've never hunted before, does this mean you are an anti-hunter? Do you own any kind of a fire arm or weapon for any kind of shooting sport? I'm just curious if you are just trying to stir up the pot enough to maniupulate any information against hunters and shooters a like. And I'm not trying to stir the pot, I just like to know the truth or the intent some non-hunters have when asking questions.

best regards

 

[JohnBT]

"spending thousands of dollars, tracking a wounded cat into the bush..."

Sounds cruel. Should have killed it with the first shot. What can I say? You have a different idea of what hunting is.

John

 

[yorec]

I'd love to visit Africa one day and hunt. Even have a good friend from South Africa who promises to guide me after anything that walks the African plains... Anything that is, except Mr. Spots - my friend is deathly afraid of leopards. He's got his reasons, I suppose. Hard man too, wouldn't ever guess he'd be afraid of anything.

But I'd still like to hunt a leopard - I'm just dumb that way.

And I couldn't stand the blind hunt either, H&H. Following those bushmen would be the way for me... Or a pack of hounds. Both have instincts and abilities far beyond my own and just might get me in sight.

 

[Matt G]

Cats are harder to kill, pound for pound, than just about any specious out there, except perhaps for fireants.

I've never shot a big cat, but I've shot a few small ones, and was most impressed by what it takes to kill 'em or even put 'em down. I've talked to a few who have killed the big cats, and they tell me that the toughness translates. The Kevlar Kat is a reality to many.

Returning to the issue of the original post (I don't believe I've ever seen a thread focus so much on the state of Greg's skivvies ) : As a rule, strongly against taking shots on targets without solid backstops. I'm especially against shooting into the sky. I've a pretty decent reason: On 20 December, 1981, a bullet fell from the sky and took the life of my great uncle, Charles Armbruster. Uncle Charlie had heard an odd sound in his engine, and pulled over on the shoulder of a fairly rural (at the time) state highway to check it out under the hood. While looking under the hood, a .22 bullet struck him from a high angle, hitting almost base-on. It managed to penetrate just enough to cut a major (pulmonary?) artery, and after telling his mother-in-law that he had been shot, he sat down and died. It was evening, and the shot had come from a great distance (it was tumbling). The shooter was never found, and we are certain that it was an accident. Almost certainly, the shooter was firing at a varmint in a tree. This was not just "some guy"-- this was my great uncle, who shot bullseye and NRA pistol competition, and who was known to spike the eggnog with a generous hand. You can look up his death record http://vitals.rootsweb.com/tx/death/search.cgi, but unfortunately it has no information about cause of death.

I have many times chastized shooters for shooting up into the air or into a tree without good backstops. But here's the thing: that "semi-rural" state highway was in Tarrant County, TX, home of Fort Worth, TX, which even 24 years ago had a LOT of people in it. This is not the same as the African bush. There's just not nearly the population density out there where the leopard is. And, once the bullet has actually passed through the mighty cat, it's spent a huge amount of energy and is going to slow quickly.

In the right location, I wouldn't have a major problem with this.

 

[killzone]

that is the Whole point

There is ambush and stalk hunting, and this is no different then anyone who sits in a tree stand waiting for a deer to show up

--originally posted by Lupinus

So,,, yeah, I think that does it.... I'd keep the rest personal.

 

[Beetle Bailey]

I noticed you said you've never hunted before, does this mean you are an anti-hunter?

No. There are lots of things I've never done that I have nothing against. I have a few friends who hunt and they have recommended that I learn to hunt, so figured I would try to find out a few things about it.

Do you own any kind of a fire arm or weapon for any kind of shooting sport?

I have a modest collection of military rifles, a few sporting rifles, and some handguns.

I'm just curious if you are just trying to stir up the pot enough to maniupulate any information against hunters and shooters a like.

I guess that is as polite a way to ask if I am a troll as can be put into words. As I understand it, one of the four rules of shooting is "Know your target and what is beyond in." Upon watching the television show I described earlier, I thought to myself "Hmmm. . . I wonder if that is how it is done?"

Well, I figured this would be a good time to visit the "Hunting" section of THR, since I don't make my way to this part of the forum very often. Not knowing the ins-and-outs of hunting, I thought it was a reasonable question. I got my answer and was satisfied with it - hadn't been back to the "Hunting" forum until just now.

If you'll re-read my posts in this thread, you'll notice that with regards to using bait, I didn't bring it up, and I also tried to steer the conversation away from that. Furthermore, if there is some disagreement as to what is and is not considered appropriate behavior isn't THR the place to discuss it in a civil manner?

BTW, to all who replied in this thread: Thanks again for your time .

 

[pacecars]

You must remember that to a lot of "hunters" if you don't hunt their way you are unethical. I would love to go Leopard hunting. Anyone who does not think it chaleenging to try to get a Leopard to show itself in daylight in a certain tree in a certain position is flat wrong. Not to mention that the leopard can very easily turn the tables on you and decide that the fresh meet in the blind is better than what is in the tree?

 

[Art Eatman]

To me, "ethics" in hunting focusses on whether or not the animal is free-ranging, for one thing. That is, he's not forced to go past a hunter to get to food or water. The hunter might be clever enough to know a likely path, but it's not like a fenced-in road. Or, if he smells/sees a hunter he can escape. Another factor in the kill itself is that it be as clean and quick as the hunter's skill allows.

SFAIK, these ideas fit in with generations of hunters who have written of their hunts and have earned the respect of the hunting fraternity. Russell Annabel, Elmer Keith and Robert Ruark come to mind. I include in this the people of whom they have written, such as Ruark's guide, Harry Selby.

Old Timer's disease just hit me, so I forget the name of the Spanish philosopher who wrote "On Hunting" or "Meditations on Hunting"...Recommended by Jeff Cooper, another well-respected hunter. Anyhow, a fairly well-known comment from the book is, "One does hunt in order to kill. One kills in order to have hunted."

Anyhow, when you get past free-range and clean kill, you've gone beyond "ethics", pretty much. You're getting into the realm of purely personal opinion.

Now, it takes more skill to play sneaky-snake and find Bambi in dense cover than it does to sit in a tree stand and wait for Ol' Bucky to wander past. I don't see any particular difference in ethics, having seen country that hunting from a stand is the only physically possible method for success. Some brush is just too thick to snake around in. BTDT.

I live in cougar country. You're not gonna play sneaky-snake on a cougar. Forget that childish nonsense. You want a cougar, and you're not gonna use dogs, you're gonna sit over bait. You can sometimes find success by adding a wounded rabbit squaller, but that will more likely bring in coyotes, bobcats, hawks and owls. So: If you want a cougar on purpose and not by accident, it's not at all unethical to sit over bait.

The same deal holds on leopards in Africa. You're not gonna sneaky-snake a leopard and shoot him. He's gonna hear you and/or see you and you won't see him until he's becoming intimate with large portions of your anatomy--and he's likely gonna win. You want a leopard? You hunt in the way that generations of hunters have found to be the only practical means to success.

Success, that is, if everything goes righteously. You don't move while in your blind. You don't scratch itches, or pay attention to ant bites. You essentially make of yourself a rock for two or three hours. And you don't whine if the wind changes, or stray people/cattle come by. Or, the leopard just doesn't feel like coming to the bait, or shows up after shooting light has gone away. Lotsa fun, hon'; too bad, how sad, come back tomorrow and try again. You have all night to scratch bug bites.

Funny about this ethics stuff. I've had people get on my case about my use of a scope on my rifle: "But that's not right! That makes it too easy!" They've never hunted, of course, or they'd know better.

But lots of people talk about stuff while having little or no knowledge of the subject...

, Art

 

[PCGS65]

I just hate to see "hunters" bashing and degrading other "hunters". There is enough anti-hunter sentiment without "hunters" adding fuel to the fire through their own ignorance.

Perhaps the best info in this thread. Thanks Ankeny

 

[Art Eatman]

I generally try to separate "ethics" from my likes and dislikes in hunting. I far and away prefer to do some form of stalking to sitting and waiting. I don't do all that well at just sitting, other than late evening during that last bit of shooting light.

I had a little trap line back in 1946. Didn't really know what I was doing, but I made a very few dollars from furs. That was in the days when you could pick cotton for 2¢ a pound, and it took a pretty good fella to pick over 100 pounds in a day.

I go out at night and call coyotes. I dunno if that's ethical or not, but that's one of the things I've done since calling got started back in the 1950s. Those Burnham boys were pretty sharp.

I go out and try to figure where Bambi lays up during the day. I have two choices: I can try to kick him out of bed and shoot him on the run, or I can figure where he's gonna go when he gets up and moving and ambush him on the trail. Or I can have all that figured out from scouting the territory before the season and build a blind to give me a bit of elevation above the brush. Seems to me that ambush is ambush...

More fun to kick Bambi out of bed and bust his neck when he's in fifth-gear overdrive, wide open throttle and working hard at being elsewhere. A trifle more challenging, if challenging is your thing.

Seems to me that folks have been trying to outsmart critters for sevral thousand generations, which is why bait sometimes gets used. Even people can learn. About all I know is that it seems unfair to hunt Bambi at night with a flashlight, and he oughta be respected enough that I work at "DRT" and no suffering--and eat what I kill. Sort of a courtesy and fair play thing.

I've never hunted on one of these high-dollar south Texas deer ranches. I doubt they have any pastures fenced off much smaller than a thousand acres or so. Brush country. I'm looking out my window at my southeast pasture, where there's a goodly clump of mesquite brush. Maybe fifty acres. I defy anybody to even find Ol' Bucky in there if he doesn't want to be found. It's impossible to work through that stuff quietly, and it's over head high to a horse. You can't crawl, unless you enjoy picking out cactus thorns. Carry pliers; dog-cactus spines got little barbs on the ends.

Which is why people make a living building high stands. With some elevation, you have a chance of seeing something.

But like H&H, I don't much like sittin', so there are some places I don't hunt...

Sorry for the length of the ramble.

, Art

 

[Guyon]

You're not gonna play sneaky-snake on a cougar.

Great line, Art.

 

[M.E.Eldridge]

Personally, I have no problems with any sort of hunting except those hunts which are conducted in confined, fenced in areas by otherwise able body hunters. I don't mind much if the fenced in area is and acre or two or three, but when its 1/2 or a 1/4 acre, which I have''t seen in ads recently but remeber seeing before, then I don't really think the hunt is fair for the animal. I realise that some physically handicapped persons might only be able to hunt in small,enclosed areas and I'm fine with it if thats the case. But to me a able-bodied young hunter, with modern equipment hunting in cramped, fenced in land just seems wrong. Those are my interpretations of ethics and they very well may seem flawed, but I take them to heart, as I suspect those against baiting do.. I don't see any reason for those hunters with different ethics to argue, that to me seems more unsporting than anything conducted in the field. Well, the ranting is over and I'm off my soapbox. Good day.