Shotgun vs. AR15

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Mindset-Skillset-Toolset

Those are listed in order of importance. Mental preparation (mindset) is paramount. I am a former LEO, and had experience even prior to that in dealing with armed intruders. Home defense is, IMO, the easiest to get your mind around. Home invasions have become more common in my area in the last few years. Since I don't own a cash business or deal drugs, I'm an unlikely target, but when these happen, they happen fast - so unless you have a gun at hand, you are probably screwed. While I own both a S&W M&P 15 Sport and a Mossberg 500 configured as a fighting gun, I find them difficult to have at hand at all times. I am proficient with both. I've busted many clay birds, shot dove and ducks, and killed hundreds of ground squirrels - and found little value in these activities as far as preparing to confront a human attacker, other than developing familiarity with the weapon. When a person is coming at you, especially an armed one, they don't resemble a clay bird or any type of game in any way. Put the sights center mass and squeeze the trigger, repeat until they stop attacking.

My skillset is biased toward handguns. I practice more with handguns because I carry one everywhere I legally can. It's also easier to practice, as there is an indoor range two miles from my house. I can't carry at work, but I can carry until I get there and all the way home. When I step out of my truck, I'm armed. When I enter my house, I'm armed. If I stop off at the grocery store, I'm armed. When my grandkids are over, watching a movie or playing in the yard, I'm armed. When I'm puttering around working on my old Jeep, I'm armed. When the kid I've never seen before is trying to get me to buy a magazine subscription, I'm armed. When the car I don't know rolls up my driveway, I'm armed. And I'm armed with a weapon that I am intimately familiar with, have fired thousands of rounds through, and have complete confidence using.

While the debate over superiority of a shotgun vs a rifle vs a handgun vs a RPG vs a crossbow can go on forever (and will), none of these weapons are worth a thing if they are not available when and where you need them. There are those who will claim that the only use for a handgun is to fight their way to a rifle - a situation that is mostly fantasy for civilians, unless they are poor shots with a handgun. Being hit with a 9mm or larger hollowpoint will cause most attackers to pause to reconsider their plan. A GOOD hit will take all the debate out of it. At the ranges that I could justifiably use deadly force, any of my carry pistols will suffice.

For those that disagree, please find me an incident where a civilian used a 9mm or larger pistol to defend themselves and it was not enough gun. A real-life one, not a movie or video game.

Of course, if by some strange circumstances I was sitting on the couch with a shotty or AR with SD loads when the time came to use it, I'd use it. It's just much more likely that I'll be wearing a handgun.
 
Incorrect. Round for round, at close range, a 5.56 couldn't compete with a dose of 00 buck in a wet dream. If you believe otherwise that's fine. I just want to be sure who to ignore.

And yes, 00 buck will penetrate like a pistol round. Exactly what your drawing suggests.

Jeez, some AR guys getting a little touchy. I haven't suggested the 5.56 is in the least bit ineffective. But you guys act like I'm insulting your mother for suggesting any other round dare to compare itself with the mighty .223. I carry an AR on duty and it makes a much better weapon than a shotgun for that purpose. But to suggest it's more powerful at close range than 00buck is just silly.

Fortunately, for starters, the comparison doesn't have to be "round for round" because physics dictates that anybody with any kind of familiarity with the firearm(s) can make much more rapid, accurate hits with an AR type rifle in 5.56 than with a 12 gauge shotgun firing buckshot.

But hey, go ahead and ignore me, continue to believe that rifles can't compete with a shotgun. No skin off my back.
 
Fortunately, for starters, the comparison doesn't have to be "round for round" because physics dictates that anybody with any kind of familiarity with the firearm(s) can make much more rapid, accurate hits with an AR type rifle in 5.56 than with a 12 gauge shotgun firing buckshot.

But hey, go ahead and ignore me, continue to believe that rifles can't compete with a shotgun. No skin off my back.

I said 00 buck was more destructive than a 5.56 round. You said incorrect. No one said anything about multiple rounds. Obviously an AR has the advantage of more rounds and faster shots. That's not the point. A blast of 00 will do significantly more damage than a 5.56.

And I never said a rifle couldn't compete with a shotgun. Let's just stick to the point and not get our panty's in a wad. I'm not trying to start a "my gun is better than your gun" argument. I simply stated a fact. 00 buck does more damage than a 5.56.

If you want to get into an argument about which platform is better then we can argue about that. Then we have to get into auto shotty's vs bolt action .223's. But this isn't about platform, but about ballistics.
 
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I said 00 buck was more destructive than a 5.56 round.

This is what you said:

The AR has certain advantages, and it is quite effective, but a blast of 12g 00 Buck from 10ft.....the AR can't even compete with the kind of damage that will dish out.


But here is a recent, long, in depth discussion of a shotgun vs an AR for home defense

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=724338

A quote from that thread. Just one of many on this specific sub-topic

JShirley said:
jmr and Fred pegged it.

If you can afford it, the AR is much easier to learn to use well, and is at least as effective with good ammo as a shotgun.

Mr. Dolall, opinions may vary, but an educated opinion is considerably more valuable than an uneducated one.

John
 
Are you still trying to insinuate that a 5.56 round is the equal of 00 Buck?

Given the choice of taking one round of 5.56 COM at 10ft vs a round of 00 Buck you would choose the 5.56?

Let's just drop this.

The 5.56 is the KING of self defense. Nothing else can touch it. The AR is the best rifle ever made. Better?
 
Are you still trying to insinuate that a 5.56 round is the equal of 00 Buck?

Looks like you just missed my edit.

Please read this thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=724338

And make note of posts such as this one: (bold emphasis mine)

JShirley said:
jmr and Fred pegged it.

If you can afford it, the AR is much easier to learn to use well, and is at least as effective with good ammo as a shotgun.

Mr. Dolall, opinions may vary, but an educated opinion is considerably more valuable than an uneducated one.

John
 
Dude, I carry an AR. I could carry a shotgun if I wanted to, but I don't. I'm not disparaging the AR. At all. The poor OP had a question about effectiveness. I simply meant to assure him that a shotgun is a fine defense weapon. You don't have to go out and spend $1500 on a new rifle just because all you have is piddly 12ga. 00 buck will rip a persons arm or head off with one shot at close range. It's a good weapon.
 
Dude, I carry an AR. I could carry a shotgun if I wanted to, but I don't. I'm not disparaging the AR. At all. The poor OP had a question about effectiveness. I simply meant to assure him that a shotgun is a fine defense weapon. You don't have to go out and spend $1500 on a new rifle just because all you have is piddly 12ga.

Next time say what you mean and mean what you say. ;)

PS: There's no need whatsoever to spend $1,500 to get a great AR/M4 style rifle. Try about half that as the minimum, with ~$1,100 getting the gold standard.
 
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