sierra matchkings...

[St. Gunner]

Went out this morning and took the Sendero with me, ended up hunting as a lazy man, fed a line of corn for about 400yds down a powerline right of way, then just laid prone behind a small rise in the ground with the rifle on the bipod. About 9 o'clock a deer finally showed, ended up being a spike with some pretty good long tines. I watched him for about 15 minutes trying to decide how old he was. 1.5 they walk this year, 2.5 they die if they are a spike. Finally decided a 1.5yr old wouldn't be as big as this rascal. I was watching him on 14x at what I thought was 350yds. So I adjust the scope elevation for 350yds, hold about 2" right because it is just a slight slight tickle of wind. Flip the safety off and squeeze the trigger. I watched the impact on the onside and the sun was just right I could see spray out the backside. Never shot a matchking into a deer at that range. He looked towards the other side, looked back up at me and about that time the sound must have reached him cause he bolted. Before he hit the brush he was slowing down. I found him dead as a hammer about 25yds from where I pulled the trigger. About the same distance my 8pt ran with 168gr matchkings with a 9yd shot. I found a big blood spot but couldn't find an entrance wound.

Brought him to the house to gut him, just to avoid leaving guts where I hunt and it was chilly this morning. Also so I could really disect everything and take pics of it as I went. I have decided I do not wish to be smashed in the chest by a sierra matchking, I don't care what those folks at some boards say about them being poor bullets for game. Everything from deer at 9yds to deer at 347yds(stepped it off). Hogs at ranges off all sorts from muzzle to right at 500yds. Bullet entered within a half inch of where I was trying to hit, knocked a hole in the rib, thrashed both lungs, ripped through the heart and exited the offside shoulder leaving a quarter size exit wound. Pretty good performance by my standards. 2333fps impact velocity- 1631ft/lbs of energy 4.75moa of elevation from my 100yd zero.

I've never had one fail to penetrate on anything, sometimes I lack an exit, the deer at 9yds with a 2900fps start on the 168, I never got an exit. But most normal size hogs I have had it rip right through and kill em as fast as anything.

Attached are the autopsy photos, lots of fat on these suckers this year...


Steve

 

[St. Gunner]

exit wound

 

[St. Gunner]

entrance

 

[St. Gunner]

internal pic...

 

[St. Gunner]

any guesses on age?

 

[Sven]

No guesses, but WOW. Thanks for taking the time to share your findings.

Cute kid, too!

 

[Dr.Rob]

Good shot.

Just curious though why you aren't using a 165 gr Game king instead? Most of your expansion is likely to to deformation of the shallow hollow point, because the match king isn't designed to expand. The hollow cavity in the nose is left over from swaging the jacket, its not a varmint fround. Likely the nose peeled back slightly, taking a pressure wave of tissue/bone with it.

Good shot placement can make all the difference, but the fact of the matter is, here in Colorado thats not a legal bullet for big game.

We chose the 165 game king bacause it was the closest soft pointed bullet in BC/etc to the 168 palma match bullet.

I don't suppose you found the bullet on the one that didn't exit at 9 yards?

Probably doesn't matter on something the size of a white tail/antelope, we typically get a .30 cal hole going in and a .30-35 cal hole going out if you shoot them clean through both lungs.. just not enough animal there to expedite expansion. However if you hit bone, the exit wound can be several inches across, just like your pics.

 

[St. Gunner]

Dr. Rob,

The idea that MK doesn't expand isn't really true. Having shot 100 or so critters with it, two deer and the rest hogs, I have found that it does expand. Normally at longer ranges the bullet will leave a small exit wound if it doesn't encounter bones. It is slightly softer than a sierra gameking. Why do I shoot em, mainly because out of this rifle you can put three touching with em at 200yds, roughly 1/4moa and it carries that performance and accuracy out to right at 400yds, i've checked. We view hogs sorta like some folks view coyotes or prairie dogs, so they become test centers for anything I plan on shooting at game. After about a dozen or so hogs with 168gr matchkings in the .308 I started wondering about how they would do on deer. I shot a big 8pt, 22 3/4" inside, 137bc at 9yds, found the bullet in a couple hunks, biggest weighed 120grs. Wouldn't have happened with a gameking, but it also anchored him instantly. Never found one except in big hogs at ranges over 100yds, they plow on through. Those that don't normally retain roughly 70% of their starting weight. Not a Barnes X, but they do ok.

If I thought for a second they would cripple deer I wouldn't use em. You and I both know, government doesn't know squat about right and wrong, or good and bad, so their opinion is about as useful to me as teets on a boar hog.

 

[12-34hom]

Sierra states that Matchking bullets are not for hunting porposes.

If anyone would know - i guess they would.

12-34hom.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. I continue to see the 168-gr. Matchking work fine on whitetail, but have not seen it used on anything heavier.

Best.

 

[St. Gunner]

Sierra states that Matchking bullets are not for hunting porposes.

Nosler said the ballistic tip would be a good hunting bullet, they where wrong, it is without fail the worst bullet I ever put down a rifle barrel. Blow-ups, superficial wounds, deflection of bones, you name it it happened to me. They said it was a good bullet, the company was wrong.

Hornady introd the SST, hyped it as a great bullet, supposed to not have the problems of the BT, well once again the manufacturer was wrong. They are slightly tougher than a BT, but not even close to what I would call a large game bullet.

Sierra makes some tough bullets, the gameking is great for big hogs and such, I don't like it on deer. The matchking gets the job done and has on numerous occasions. I wonder how many critters the Sierra folks flung it at before they said it wasn't any good, or did they design it as a match bullet and so say it is only good for match shooting?

I'm telling you with a bunch of animals hit with that bullet it has done the job without fail more times than any bullet I have shot or continue to shoot. It outshines Remington corelokt by a huge margin, it smokes the BT by Nosler, it flattens the SST in its tracks. Is it better on big rough stuff than a Nosler Partition or an X bullet? Not hardly, but for small critters it gets the job done and in my rifle it gets it done with a group three times smaller than a Nosler Partition and 6 times smaller than an X bullet. At 100yds if I want to pop an animal through the eyeball I can with it, with the Nosler I can't, with the X bullet I might miss the whole head.

Like Dr. Rob said, placement is everything. Look at the pics, the hide, two ribs, a shoulder bone and an exit. I couldn't have done it with a 130gr Speer sp at that range, would have pulled a bullet from the offside shoulder. The BT and SST would have been in the chest cavity in pieces.

It works...

 

[cookhj]

dr rob, just a quick correction, the palma bullet is a 155 gr BTHP.

while you want a quick, clean kill, you also want a bullet that is as accurate as possible with your particular rifle. if you shoot a bullet that isn't particularly suited for hunting, and it shoots amazing groups, your chance of hitting the animal exactly where you want it are greater. if you have a bullet that expands well, but isn't particularly accurate, you may hit the animal, but it might not be a hit that will put it down almost instantly. so in a way, you have to make compromises here and there between accuracy and expansion.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I've seen Palma Match BTHP's in 147, 168, 172, 180 and 190 gr's.

I don't think I've ever seen a 155??

I've had 'wonder bullets' break up, crater, do wierd things. Still it killed the animal in its tracks. (Remington 180gr Bronze pt) Thing is.. that was a super accurate bullet! (I'm guessing the bronze tip gave it a slight ballistic edge?) The expansion of thematch king suprises me, as match king bullets are "ok" for use in long range military rifles.

I've seen exactly ONE sierra game king partially shed its jacket in 20 some years, I know this is a concern of those who advise a heavier jacketed Nosler partition or similar bullet.

I don't doubt you can kill a deer with the bullet, nor has my ammo ever been "inspected" by the game warden. I still think the 165 sierra game king is perhaps the best compromise in accuracy/velocity and long range power of all the available commercial 30-06 hunting loads.

The X-bullet is a good comprimise to a deep penetrating slow expanding bullet, esp on larger (African) sized game, somehow the Barnes bullet doesn't break off its petals as it expands. Almost hits like a solid, then opens up.

 

[Steve Smith]

The Palma bullet is specifically a 155 grain bullet, as specified by US and International Palma rules. Anything with the word "Palma" on it in any other weight than 155 is mislabeled. Sierra makes Match Kings in many weights, but there is only one Palma.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I stand corrected.

 

[St. Gunner]

The jawbone for any aging gurus here...

 

[kotengu]

I'm far from a "guru", but I asked the warden to show me how to determine age when I had mine checked this year. He showed me the teeth on mine and mentioned that if the teeth have come in all the way back (of course using proper names for which teeth were which) it was about 2 to 2 1/2 yrs old, and after that the wear on the teeth give a general idea of how much time has passed. Mine were razor sharp and looked all but new, so he guessed it was 2 1/2 yrs old. It's hard to tell from the pic, but yours looks very similar, with almost no wear on the back teeth. I'd guess it around 2 1/2 as well.

On a side note - he mentioned that most of the teeth (except the very back two, I believe) come in by the time they are 1 1/2, so if you find one missing that last one or two you can narrow it down some more.

Hope that helps......

Matt

 

[Johnny Guest]

Weeeelllll - - -

- - It is most difficult to argue a point with someone who has had a given combination of factors work out so well. Congratulations on your success, and your good fortune on not having any animals run off to die a lingering death. I strongly suspect that, given equally precise shot placement, the animals would have died just as quickly if struck by the military match 173 FMJ at a similar velocity.

If you're interested, you might consider a call to the Sierra Bullets customer service line, 800-223-8789. They have a very knowledgeable and experienced tech staff there. See their bios and CVs at - -
http://www.sierrabullets.com/techservice/index.cfm

I think it interesting that one of their Frequently Asked Questions has to do with just this topic:
http://www.sierrabullets.com/techservice/SierraBulletsFAQ_Result.cfm

the help line tech staff is usually eager to discuss such stuff as jacket thickness, weight distribution, and other factors in the match bullets vice hunting bullets. It also may be of interest that a 1000 yard benchrest accuracy record was set by a shooter using 180 gr Sierra GameKing .308" bullets. This record stood for several years, best I recall.

I believe the major objection to the MK for hunting has to do with the front end of the bullet breaking off and the unstable rear tumbling without additional expansion. Of course, anything is possible, and, expecially in shooting wild hawgs, the lack of expansion CAN be a Good Thing.

Anyway, thanks for an interesting and well illustrated thread.

Best,
Johnny