SIG Romeo 7 Red Dot

[barnbwt]

So I've decided to move a few purchases up ahead of The Last Great Panic, and one of them is the optic for the Kel Tec RDB soon to arrive at my local FFL dealer by way of the internet loophole .



There's been a ton of buzz about the Romeo 4 series SIG came out with (the one with solar, dual reticle, and auto on/off), but there is very little about the larger size 7. I'm guessing that 30mm dot sights are simply not in style compared to the much smaller/lighter 20mm units; I have no ambition for magnifiers or night vision or irons, so the size isn't really a big issue (and the RDB is fairly light, so the extra six ounces or so is probably tolerable). At any rate, I found enough specs/reviews to try the 7 out, since I really like the idea of a larger field of vision (only other dot sight I use is a beater EoTech 512 that's probably nearing the end of its service life)

These things are supposed to have a selectable reticle (dot or dot/circle), and some type of auto on/off feature I've heard mixed reviews of (the Romeo 4s --which are clearly a variant of the Holosuns, though whether it's a parallel product line or knock-off remains to be seen-- seem to have more than a few reports of this feature going inoperative). It's apparently awesome when it works, which is usually, though. Runs on a single AA battery, supposedly for longer than my car's mortgage term (62500 hours), which I believe is also a good bit longer than the unused shelf life of the same batteries. There's somehow only two or three reviews of the sight out there, despite its being on the market for a little while, which are largely positive. Apparently the little straps for the screw caps suck.

I plan to update this with a real review when it gets here, but until then, I wanted to see if anyone else has had any experience with these guys. Appears to be similar to some of the Vortex offerings (Spitfire?). 300$, can't be *that* bad, I figure, and best case I get a decent sight that doesn't require an ON switch.

TCB

 

[chicharrones]

I'm interested to hear how it performs for you. I do have a preference for AA red dots.

 

[tarosean]

I'm curious to know who is making signs optics for them. The smaller RD's appear to be Holoson. (????????)
Not sure about the actual scopes.. Interesting but I've yet to see one in the wild and I personally won't buy a scope without looking through it first.

 

[barnbwt]

Welp...

This sight sucks. At least this particular example does. External quality & seems fairly good, the box it came in was extraordinarily nice. Electrically, it seems alright; the motion-sensing feature is pretty slick & seems to work well enough, the adjustment dial works/feels good. The laser/dot/whatever is distractingly starbursted to my eye*, but doesn't appear terrible to my camera (really hard to get a focused shot of it, though). I think the EoTech reticle being a 'shape' rather than just a dot makes it easier for my funky eye to find the middle of it (even if I still see a second much dimmer reticle). I may decide to go with the Romeo4 sight which has a similar-ish reticle to replace this one, as a personal preference.

*I did some research, and it appears I have a certain degree of 'coma' in my eyes at the moment (not always), which leads to increased starburst & a mild ghost image at the 2:00 position of the dot for my right eye & 12:00 for my left. Some days it's actually noticeable as double vision (in one eye, both images still sharp) but others it's completely absent (I suspect it's due to sleep quality or eyestrain). Today it's mild & doesn't affect my ability to read small font across the room, but is super noticeable with highly collimated projection sights like these.

Interior optical quality is where it falls apart, though, and there are substantial reflections or illumination of the interior at 6:00 and 3:00 at every angle & with both eyes. As I mentioned, using the EoTech as a control, this sight still appears to be considerably more starbursted. And if that isn't distracting enough, interior reflections are near-constant and shift around & bloom/dim with subtle movement of the sight relative to the eye, so badly that the shadow screen is lit in relief. At all but the dimmest brightness levels, two dots appear on the two internal lenses that the dot projects through, indicative of poor glass or contamination of the surfaces (and I can only clean one of them, which did not fix the issue). At least when I shoulder the rifle, these extraneous dots are obscured by the starburst of the main dot & aren't very distracting. These, however, are all issues with illuminated projection sights to one degree or another.


What really kills this sight for me, is a large, ugly blob of what appears to be sealant tar inside the nearest lens at the 4:00 mark. Protrudes about 1/8" into the view field, and is about 1/4" long. Totally unacceptable quality for a three hundred dollar sight, or for a 20$ one. I suspect it may have something to do with all the internal reflections, since it is quite shiny & sits between the two areas with the most incidental illumination.


SIG's "infinite" warranty will be getting a test run (note; the 'infinite' warranty does not apply to electronics which are only warranted five years)

 

[chicharrones]

That sealant tar over the LED housing is supposed to be non-reflective so that the internal lens reflections don't pick it up. I had a $200 red dot that had a bad internal reflection of shiny sealant on the LED housing that I couldn't live with and returned the red dot. I have the same reflection in a $40 red dot that I can live with due to money spent.

Either way, both red dots were fine for bright outdoor use but not good at all for low light use. My two Bushnell TRS-25 red dots are better than the other two I mention in low light or bright light.

EOTechs, well that's another performance realm optically.

 

[barnbwt]

My issue isn't so much that the tar is shiny (although it is), it's that the blob is large enough to partially obscure the precious field of view. I did take the optic out for a test, today, and it was within a few inches at 150yds, so the gong was rung without too much trouble (see my RDB review for why I wasn't really testing for groups). Not really what a dot is meant for, but it worked well enough, and nothing else went wrong (with the sight, anyway). With a loaded mag, the sight balances well on this short rifle, and as I'd assumed, the dot appeared more dot-like in the bright Texas sun (had to crank it up to max on a cloudy day to get a bright dot, though I am shooting in a light-colored sand pit that bleaches a lot of contrast [plus my eyes are red-deficient so the SIG reticle isn't zapping as many cone cells in my eye as for a normal person]). Only very slightly less convenient to use than my EoTech with it's gargantuan field of view, so I call it a win.

Just need to get a version that's as well made as intended and I should be a happy camper

TCB

 

[barnbwt]

Hmm, apparently we can't modify our posts after a few days (oh well)

I have decided to soften my standpoint a bit on this sight, if only because of how well it ran on my latest outing. It also continues to auto on/off properly (been testing it a couple times a day for a few weeks now, seems reliable enough). Now, might just be my eyes or it might just be collimated dot-sights in general, but I will continue to not recommend this sight for indoor/darkened use, because of the starburst, reflection, and *extreme* visibility of the dot from the objective (I didn't notice this originally, but the field of view you can see the dot is larger from the receiving end than the viewing end, which seems silly to me) which at brighter levels stands out like a laser pointer (because it is). I've also inspected a few other red dots, and the sealing tar issue with mine seems to be about 'normal,' though I still it makes them all look a but junky. Maybe in a few years the LEDs/housings will shrink some more and be less conspicuous.

However (big however), the sight was fantastic on the RDB today*. Plinking an 8" gong at 150yds was quite easy, as was sighting the thing in, the dot stands out but does not starburst in daylight (it's a relative brightness between the dot & objective that causes the starburst to appear), the small dot does not interfere with precision shooting, and the large tube makes acquisition very easy. Combine that with the RDBs superior recoil characteristics & accuracy, and I was spotting impacts and reacquiring my aim within a second shooting off a table (no sling or supports).

That said, after playing with one of the Primary Arms prism scopes (low or no fixed magnification telescopic sight with true etched/illuminated reticle) I've decided that the 'ACOG' style true reticle vs. a projected laser is a better fit for me. This sight is growing on me slowly, but I know I'll always be fighting the refraction foibles that are the weak points of the technology. It will likely end up on my MP45SD thing once I get it running right, since I feel it works better as a close-in sight for which the 45acp is operating; I think at range, the specular effects act to increase the effective size of the dot over the sight picture & make aiming difficult, unless in broad daylight. If dot sights truly look like dots to other folks and it's just my eyeballs causing the issue, I'd say this is a compelling alternative to an EoTech or much more expensive red dot (that said, the EoTech isn't nearly as visible from the objective as this; it's surprisingly bad how easily seen it is seen)

TCB

*Once again, I've found that the more troublesome & obnoxious a first range trip is for a gun, the more awesome it will be subsequently

 

[Averageman]

Sig Optics suffer from everything except an over inflated price.
I had gotten several free and felt so guilty about taking money for them due to their poor quality, that I gave them away for free.
Feel free to do a search regarding my experiences here with Sig Rifles and you will understand my extreme bias against anything Sig USA makes or the crappy optics they import.
Edit to add;
My Boss was telling me his Sig 716 cannot fire seven rounds without jamming. My need to say "Told you so" was only outweighed by my desire to remain employed.