Sighting in Win 94 Help

[dak0ta]

Hey,

So today I brought my 94 out to the range and it was shooting way high and to the left (off the paper). I tapped the front sight and got it centered, then lowered the elevator ramp to the lowest setting and it was still shooting about 6'' high. I was aiming at the bottom of the target to get it to print near the bullseye. I then removed the elevator all together and then it shot about 4'' low. I came back and looked at the manual and it appears that the rear sight has a screw that allows for even further elevation adjustment. How do I use this screw and will it make up for 4'' of elevation error?

 

[Abel]

I came back and looked at the manual and it appears that the rear sight has a screw that allows for even further elevation adjustment. How do I use this screw and will it make up for 4'' of elevation error?

Does your rifle have said screw?

 

[30-30shooter]

mine has a screw on the sight itself to adjust the insert.

 

[huntershooter]

You may need a shorter front sight.
Are you shooting 150 or 170 gr. bullets?
The 150's should print lower than the 170's.

 

[Malamute]

Loosen the screw and slide the insert a little, snug the screw, and try it. The screw slot is tiny, you may have to grind a screwdriver to fit it.


In the "old days", the steps on the elevators were for different ranges, starting at either 50 or 100 yards, up to about 250-300 yards, depending on the elevator and sight. Now, everyone just uses them to sight in and never thinks about different ranges. Your's probably has the "3-C" elevator as most later guns do. Older style elevators (32-B style) are available that fit that sight, Dixie has them I believe, among others, they are longer and easier to see the steps as you adjust them. The good repros are cool, they have the patent dates on the side of the elevator.

Edit: just looked, Dixie does not have the 32-B type elevators any longer.

 

[CraigC]

You may need a shorter front sight.

If it's shooting high he needs a taller front sight.

I'd suggest ditching the barrel mounted sight altogether and getting a Williams Foolproof. Knock out the rear dovetail and install the receiver sight with the two screws on the left side of the receiver. A world of difference.

 

[dak0ta]

Yeah it's a 1953 model winchester 94. It has one screw on the right ear of the rear sight. It looks like the previous owner went at it with a screw driver as it's sort of stripped in some parts. I was shooting Federal 150 grn bullets. Were these rifles meant for 170 grn?

 

[Malamute]

I don't recall when Winchester started drilling and tapping for receiver sights, a '53 made gun may not be. If it is, I'd also suggest a decent receiver sight. Much easier to shoot well. You could have it drilled and tapped, but many don't want to alter older guns in any way for fear of lighning strikes and such. I would only suggest if you have it drilled and tapped, use a post-64 94 Weaver side mount base as a template to get the holes in exactly the right place like the factory. Your gunsmith will know what to do with it.


There are several places that may have a replacement sight screw. Winchester Bob is one. Doing a google search may turn up parts sources, or go to Winchester's web site and see where they suggest for parts for obsolete models. If you order one, be sure you get the correct part, later (post-64 I believe) guns had two screws that held the whole rear sight face to the leaf spring part on the barrel. Those screws won't work for the type sight you have.

They aren't necesarily "made" for any particular weight bullet, some guns shoot one weight better than others. Some guys like heavier or lighter bullets depending on what they hunt. Most available factory loads also shoot flatter than the advertisement for the leverevolution ammo would have you believe, they chose the worst possible load/bullet available regarding ballistic coeficient for comparison with their load, and used different sight height and sight in ranges, seriously skewing the comparison results. Don't buy into the hype unless you look at other sources for data on trajetories, sight in ranges etc. All available loads are fine to 200 yards or so without any drama when sighted in properly.

 

[dak0ta]

Also what's a good grouping with stock irons in these rifles? My first time shooting it at 50 yards I got about 1.5 inches. At 100 yards I got 2 inches. For plinking and hunting at max 100 yards is this good enough to hit the vital area of a deer?

 

[Malamute]

Absolutely!

Many with scope sighted guns would be happy to be able to consistaly shoot groups that good.

Many 94's aren't stellar groupers, tho I wonder if many guys ever try different loads like they would with a bolt gun. I've had a couple that would shoot smaller groups, but not consistantly. 2" groups @ 100 yards is plenty good enough for deer. The only suggestion I'd make if you want to hunt is do most of your shooting without a bench rest.

If you want to lower your point of impact a little, you could file the lowest elevator notch down a little and keep checking it. Sounds like the load you are shooting works well in the gun, tho other makes and weights may shoot just as good. A different load may shoot to a little different point of impact also, like someone said, and the sights may be fine as is.

 

[dak0ta]

Yeah I might go buy some Federal, Remington, and Winchesters in 150 and 170 gr and see how they all perform. I like the way the gun handles, but yes I was shooting from the bench. Having never hunted, how do most people shoot their door? Sitting? Kneeling? leaning on a tree? Sitting back on a tree? From a blind?

Also, on the shooting range it's easy to see the distances due to the targets but in the bush how does one gauge the distances? like how do you tell the deer is 100 yards away instead of 75 yards when there's bushes and trees everywhere?

 

[Malamute]

I practice most standing with no rest. It's the hardest to do, and any sort of rest, like against a tree, or kneeling, seems simple after that.

The difference between 75 and 100 yards doesnt really matter. Your rifle shoots plenty flat enough to make hits to 150 yards if sighted right on at 100 without having to worry. I sight mine about 2"-3" high at 100, and can hold right on a deer to about 225 yards without concern. Study some trajectory charts, and it will become clear.

If you can get some good reading material about rifle shooting, it will help. One of the better general books is by Jeff Cooper, called "The Art of the Rifle", it addresses field shooting postitions and field use, not target positions as some books may. Unfortunately, many only shoot from benches, thinking they are all tuned up to go hunt. I think that is far from the truth. Offhand shooting and other field use positions is much harder to do, and only practicing off a bench makes for poor shots in the field, and wounded game running off to suffer, and perhaps be lost. Not many will take time to actually track either, sadly.

The general rule of thumb for hunting is being able to consistantly place all your shots in a paper plate from field postitions. The max range you can do this consistalty, is the max range that should be considered for that postion for you. Shooting offhand after shooting on the bench can be a real eye opener. Shooting scads of 22's in field postions is great practice tho, and a lot of fun.


One thing to try for range estimation is going walking in the woods or aprk, and guessing distances, then pacing them off to see how you did, and continuing the game over time. Not many are very good at estimating ranges in the field, flat shooting rifles make up for much of that. Your 30-30 is fine out to 150-200 yards if you can make the shot, and don't get in a rush. "Maximum point blank range" is the term used for the distance your gun can be sighted for and not have to adjust your aim point and still hit a deer or whatever your target anmal is. Sighted about 2" high @ 100 yards, the 30-30 is fine for about 175-200 yards without having to worry about holding over. Not many can actually make consistant shots in the field at that range with iron sights tho. Shooting on a range with nice contrasting color bullseyes is very different than shooting in the field at an animal that blends in with the country around it, or at very least, isn't a nice contrasting color.

 

[dak0ta]

Thanks for the insight. I have tried offhand shooting with my 22lr bolt rifle and really enjoyed trying to plink the gong at 200 yards. I guess I just need to go out and shoot my rifles more.